Causative in your conlang(s)

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Täzari
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Joined: Tue 08 Oct 2013 4:14 am

Causative in your conlang(s)

Postby Täzari » Fri 23 May 2014 2:09 pm

Unfortunately this forum seems to be poorly read, but still I hope to start a new discussion on some interesting topics!

This time I would like to know from you how does the causative structure work in your conlang(s). Here I present the structure for Lözusöteli.

Like it happens for the passive, which I have presented in one of my previous posts, the causative too depends on a verbal modifier for its formation. This modifier is -ukam- that is added between the verbal root and the personal ending.

Example:
Bikki er pëksu - "I run to the sea"

A causative counterpart of this sentence would be:

Bikkukami pai belad er pëksu - "I make my dog run to the sea"

Bikk-ukam-i pai bel-ad er pëk-su
run.pres-CAUS-1ps pers.pron.1ps.GEN dog-ACCs prep. sea-PRE2s

The caused argument's case changes according to the valency of the verb. As you probably already know, the causative construction is a strategy to increase the valency of the verb.
So an intransitive verb (like bikkaka "to run") becomes a transitive when -ukam- is used and in this case the caused argument is expressed in the accusative (belad ACCs of bel "dog").
A transitive verb becomes a ditransitive verb whose caused argument is expressed in the dative:

Mazukami ebkäd pai belki - "I make my dog drink water"

Maz-ukam-i ebku-ad pai bel-ki (u+a -> ä)
drink.pres-CAUS-1ps water-ACCs pers.pron.1ps.GEN dog-DATs

Finally, ditransitive verbs become four places verbs, in this case too the caused argument is expressed in the dative case:

Ræbukami pai epæbo kætsiþenden pöþko - "I make my friend say the answer to the teacher"

Ræb-ukam-i pai epæb-o kætsiþ-en-den pöþk-o
say.pres-CAUS-1ps pers.pron.1ps.GEN friend-DATs answer-ACCs-art.ACCs teacher-DATs

In this case two nouns are expressed in the DAT but this is due merely to the basic argument structure of the verb ræka "to say". When this happens, which one of the two nouns is the caused argument is understandable from the context and from its being the closer one to the verb.

-ukam- is considered as a modifier expressing a coercitive meaning. When we want to express a causative that means we let someone do something we use the modifier -let- (called "permissive"). Its construction follows the aforementioned rules.

Utzækletisa tad pelgakaladit - "I'll let you go out if you finish to eat"

Utzæk-let-i-sa tad pelgak-alad-it
go.out.fut-PER-1ps-pers.pron.2ps.ACC conj. eat.fut-TERM-2ps
Ræhaktæśede enśké är hvå debbéś lit kæbbtera.

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Napishtim
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Re: Causative in your conlang(s)

Postby Napishtim » Fri 27 Mar 2015 11:39 am

Thanks for the detailed explanations !

In Laramin, which is strictly agglutinative, causative is obtained as a complex verbal voice, by doubling the mark of active voice (Ra) on the verb. The patient of this verb is also an nominative case, but then the syntax must be strictly SVO to avoid confusion with the agent of the verb.

"I make him choose": I make (active) him choose (active).
1ps.NOM ACT.ACT.choose.pres 3ps.NOM
=> "Nan raraxol min."

In Hylian, causative is simply a verbal aspect marked by an E at the beginning of the verb. In the case of Learn, to make learn = to teach (forget about "the mother having her child taught piano by a teacher".. i kept it a bit simple!) :

"I learn this, I teach him this."
=> "Ti maudur navao, ti emaudur ni navao."
Conlangs: Laramin, Hylian. Conscripts: Alfuni, PhonoBraille, KoreoViet, etc. :roll:

Harsmellow
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Joined: Thu 26 Jun 2014 4:25 pm

Re: Causative in your conlang(s)

Postby Harsmellow » Thu 17 Dec 2015 8:54 pm

The causative in my conlang (Yīngyuēn) is pretty simple. It's indicated with a function word, shì, which typically introduces a new subject into the clause, thereby transforming the original subject into the object. The causative is actually indicated in the passive voice only.
Example: "Làng kùai shì jiăn là guŏ." = "I made him/her study."
My current conlang is still very new, so I haven't covered much of this subject yet. I'm working on it, though. ;)

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Napishtim
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Re: Causative in your conlang(s)

Postby Napishtim » Fri 18 Dec 2015 3:34 am

Hi Harsmellow!
Thanks! It seems to me that your example is still active factitive. The passive being "He's been made to study."
Did you create YingYuen as a subversive act against your mandarin teacher? ;)
Where can we read further about it?

In Laramin actually, the system (Agent1 => Agent2 => Patient) allows plenty of complex verbal voices, which are obtained by combining the prefix Ra (active) and Me (passive).

Considering the system: Master => Worker => House
- The master has the house built (by mean of the worker). In Laramin, it's marker by the combination Active.Passive = Rame
- The master has the worker to build the house. Here the marker is Active.Active = Rara
- The worker is made build the house (by the master) Here the marker is Passive.Active = Mera
- The house is had built by the master (by mean of the worker) (??) The marker is Passive.Passive = Meme

The complement "by mean of" would be marked by the instrumental case.

Simple :)
Conlangs: Laramin, Hylian. Conscripts: Alfuni, PhonoBraille, KoreoViet, etc. :roll:

Harsmellow
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu 26 Jun 2014 4:25 pm

Re: Causative in your conlang(s)

Postby Harsmellow » Fri 18 Dec 2015 8:51 am

Napishtim wrote:Hi Harsmellow!
Thanks! It seems to me that your example is still active factitive. The passive being "He's been made to study."
Did you create YingYuen as a subversive act against your mandarin teacher? ;)
Where can we read further about it?

In Laramin actually, the system (Agent1 => Agent2 => Patient) allows plenty of complex verbal voices, which are obtained by combining the prefix Ra (active) and Me (passive).

Considering the system: Master => Worker => House
- The master has the house built (by mean of the worker). In Laramin, it's marker by the combination Active.Passive = Rame
- The master has the worker to build the house. Here the marker is Active.Active = Rara
- The worker is made build the house (by the master) Here the marker is Passive.Active = Mera
- The house is had built by the master (by mean of the worker) (??) The marker is Passive.Passive = Meme

The complement "by mean of" would be marked by the instrumental case.

Simple :)



Cool! :mrgreen:
But no, actually, I'm not learning Mandarin. I am, however, basing Yīngyuēn on Mandarin, Cantonese and Vietnamese.
I'd love to share more information on the conlang, but, to be quite honest, the reference grammar that I'm working on is more or less a sin against literature... Hahah. I'd have to make a lot of refinements first (and, well, it's hiddeously underdeveloped at the moment, considering how long I've been working on it.)
But yeah, I'd love to share it when I feel that it's ready. :)

Also-
I really don't like having to use diacritics and other markings for tone (it can be a bit of a pain when writing), but I sort of have to when using the romanized form.


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