Talk in a language you don't know

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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby Tikolm » Sat 04 Aug 2012 9:43 pm

linguoboy wrote:Ydy'r ddôr yn gorwedd ar ei hochr?

Yes, I suppose so. (I can tell that you're asking about the door lying on [something].)
Mynd oddi tanynt means "going from under them", which sounds a bit off. Mynd danyn nhw would be the usual way to say "going under them" in modern Welsh. Tanynt sounds quite literary. If you want to use that form, it would be better to cast the whole sentence in the same register, i.e. Haws dywedyd cathod na myned tanynt.

Oh, okay. That particular sentence was my somewhat clueless attempt at correcting "haws dweud na chathod i fynd oddi tanynt".
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby linguoboy » Sun 05 Aug 2012 7:37 am

Tikolm wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Ydy'r ddôr yn gorwedd ar ei hochr?

Yes, I suppose so. (I can tell that you're asking about the door lying on [something].)

"on its [literally "her"] side"

Mae'n hwyr. Dylwn i fod yn y gwely.
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby Tikolm » Sun 05 Aug 2012 5:30 pm

linguoboy wrote:"on its [literally "her"] side"

Thank you. So I guess "mae'r ddôr yn gorwedd ar ei hochr". (I don't know how to say "yes" or "no" in any natlang other than English, French, Spanish and Russian.)
Mae'n hwyr. Dylwn i fod yn y gwely.

Sorry, I'll have to use a translator program for this one. Let's see what GT said: "It's late. I should be in bed."
I don't really have anything good to say to that, but at least I learned something.
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby linguoboy » Mon 06 Aug 2012 2:01 am

Tikolm wrote:
linguoboy wrote:"on its [literally "her"] side"

Thank you. So I guess "mae'r ddôr yn gorwedd ar ei hochr". (I don't know how to say "yes" or "no" in any natlang other than English, French, Spanish and Russian.)

Welsh is complicated in this respect since it famously does not have a single word for "yes" or for "no". Rather it repeats the main verb of the sentence. So the affirmative response to a question beginning with "Ydy?" is "Ydy" and the negative response is "Nag ydy".

Wyt ti'n deall y frawddeg 'ma?
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby Tikolm » Mon 06 Aug 2012 3:21 am

linguoboy wrote:Welsh is complicated in this respect since it famously does not have a single word for "yes" or for "no". Rather it repeats the main verb of the sentence. So the affirmative response to a question beginning with "Ydy?" is "Ydy" and the negative response is "Nag ydy".

Thank you. That sounds like what Portuguese does. It also sounds like something I've heard before.
Wyt ti'n deall y frawddeg 'ma?

GT again. "Do you understand the sentence here?" Assuming the verb is "wyt":
Nag wyt.

Also, mae'n hwyr, and you know what that means. Dylwn i fod yn y gwely.
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby linguoboy » Mon 06 Aug 2012 3:58 am

Tikolm wrote:
Wyt ti'n deall y frawddeg 'ma?

GT again. "Do you understand the sentence here?" Assuming the verb is "wyt":
Nag wyt.

Unfortunately, that reply means, "No, you don't." If what you mean is, "No, I don't", then you have to say "Nag ydw."

(This is all explained on the page I linked to.)
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby Tikolm » Mon 06 Aug 2012 6:14 pm

linguoboy wrote:Unfortunately, that reply means, "No, you don't." If what you mean is, "No, I don't", then you have to say "Nag ydw."

Oh, whoops. I was worried that might be the case.
(This is all explained on the page I linked to.)

I'm not sure what page you're referring to. I will have to look around for it.
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby Tikolm » Mon 06 Aug 2012 7:16 pm

In case anyone cares, I just came up with a really dumb short dialogue in Welsh. Here it is if anyone wants to proofread it.
A: Mae'r gath tew yn cysgu ar y ddôr.
B: Ydy'r ddôr yn gorwedd ar ei hochr?
A: Ydy.
C: Nag ydy.
A: Nag ydy'r ddôr yn gorwedd ar ei hochr?
B: Haws dweud ddôr na mynd drosto, C.
A: Nag mae'r gath yn cysgu ar y ddôr. Mae'r ddôr yn cysgu ar y gath.
C: Mae'r ddôr yn cysgu?
B: Nag mae.

For anyone who can't understand it, it's just a bunch of stuff about a fat cat sleeping on a door. It doesn't make much sense. :P
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby linguoboy » Mon 06 Aug 2012 9:46 pm

Tikolm wrote:A: Mae'r gath dew yn cysgu ar y ddôr.
B: Ydy'r ddôr yn gorwedd ar ei hochr?
A: Ydy.
C: Nag ydy.
A: Ydy'r ddôr ddim yn gorwedd ar ei hochr?
B: Haws dweud ddôr na mynd drosti, C.
A: Dydy'r gath ddim yn cysgu ar y ddôr. Mae'r ddôr yn cysgu ar y gath.
C: Ydy'r ddôr yn cysgu?
B: Nag ydy.

Nouns: Don't forget that cath and dôr are both feminine nouns. Adjectives which modify them must be mutated and conjugated prepositions which refer back to them must use feminine forms.

Verbs: Mae is a tricky verb to start with because it has more forms in the present than any other verb. Ydy is the interrogative form, the form used after nag in giving a negative answer, or after nad in a negative relative clause (i.e. "that is not"). Dydy is the negative form and mae is the corresponding declarative.

As I just explained on Unilang, Welsh negation is two-pronged, like French: in the absence of a negative pronoun (like neb "nobody"), the negative verb is reinforced with dim (mutated to ddim after the subject).

Here's a little dialogue. For practice, fill in the missing parts:

Llawygath: Lle mae'r gath?
Coesci: ___ hi'n cysgu ar y gwely.
Llawygath: ___'r gwely'n gynnes?
Coesci: Nag ___. Mae'r cynfasau [sheets] yn denau [thin].
Llawygath. Dim posibl! Chysgiff y gath ddim ar wely nad [that] ___ e ddim yn gynnes!
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Re: Talk in a language you don't know

Postby Tikolm » Mon 06 Aug 2012 11:37 pm

linguoboy wrote:
Tikolm wrote:A: Mae'r gath dew yn cysgu ar y ddôr.
B: Ydy'r ddôr yn gorwedd ar ei hochr?
A: Ydy.
C: Nag ydy.
A: Ydy'r ddôr ddim yn gorwedd ar ei hochr?
B: Haws dweud ddôr na mynd drosti, C.
A: Dydy'r gath ddim yn cysgu ar y ddôr. Mae'r ddôr yn cysgu ar y gath.
C: Ydy'r ddôr yn cysgu?
B: Nag ydy.

Thanks for the corrections. I was sure there'd be something I got wrong. Now I'll have to fix the web page that has this on it. (The public version of the page doesn't have the above dialogue on it at the moment, but it will soon.) Edit: I just updated the web page, and it now contains Linguoboy's version of the dialogue instead of the total silliness that it had on it before.
Nouns: Don't forget that cath and dôr are both feminine nouns. Adjectives which modify them must be mutated and conjugated prepositions which refer back to them must use feminine forms.

Verbs: Mae is a tricky verb to start with because it has more forms in the present than any other verb. Ydy is the interrogative form, the form used after nag in giving a negative answer, or after nad in a negative relative clause (i.e. "that is not"). Dydy is the negative form and mae is the corresponding declarative.

Oh, fooey. Thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea mae and ydy were forms of the same verb. I suppose I should have figured that out.
As I just explained on Unilang, ...

Sorry, but I wrote up the dialogue before you posted that on Unilang.
Here's a little dialogue. For practice, fill in the missing parts:

Llawygath: Lle mae'r gath?
Coesci: Mae hi'n cysgu ar y gwely.
Llawygath: Ydy'r gwely'n gynnes?
Coesci: Nag ydy. Mae'r cynfasau [sheets] yn denau [thin].
Llawygath. Dim posibl! Chysgiff y gath ddim ar wely nad [that] mae e ddim yn gynnes!

I filled in the verbs. I'd like to know if the words in brackets are translations, which I assume they are. Even so, I can't understand why the cat wouldn't sleep on the bed.
By the way, I like how you've used my Unilang username here, which so happens to be really meaningless Welsh (llaw y gath).
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