The Bee

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Re: The Bee

Postby falasha » Sat 03 Jul 2010 10:21 pm

Cite, please.

"We the Black Jews" by Dr. Yoseph Ben Jochannan
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Re: The Bee

Postby dtp883 » Sun 04 Jul 2010 7:16 am

falasha wrote:"We the Black Jews" by Dr. Yoseph Ben Jochannan

He believes that the Jews are Black and predate the Nile Civilization and come from Ethiopia. While Ethiopian Jews are accepted by Israel as Jewish they are in fact genetically different. They are typically considered to be descendants of intermarried or converted Ethiopians by the semitic diaspora which was completely absorbed by them. They are genetically similar to the surrounding, non-Jew, Ethiopians. Dr. Jochannan's belief are kind of like Black Hebrew Israelites in the aspects of Blacks originating Judaism and Civilization.

You can figure that the black Jews, especially those in America, are not Jews, at least not the original, by wondering a few questions. Why do "white" Jews have the Torah? Why do the "white" Jews speak Hebrew (which makes sense of most Biblical Names)? Why would Hebrew be spoken down in Ethiopia when all the languages related to Hebrew are known to be spoken/have been spoken closer to Israel? Why does the Torah talk about locations in or near Israel, the location of the "white" Jews, like Egypt or the Dead Sea? Why are there no artifacts of a Jewish nature in Black Africa?

On the idea of the origins of high civilization originating in Sub-Saharan Africa, it's just wrong. This is not racist. Civilization is most likely thought to have originated on the banks of the Nile, in Egypt, the Tigris and the Euphrates, in Mesopotamia, the Yangtze, in China, and a river in India. These were extremely fertile and allowed for settled agricultural civilizations. Rivers of this magnitude do not exist in Africa so the people there were forced to stay, for the most part, Nomadic. These primitive people near those fertile rivers formed towns and villages which were relatively easy to move between. For this reason, states, or multi-city civilizations began to form which were strengthened by the diffusion of ideas from different areas. This happened first between the inside of a civilization's bounds then outward with the other civilizations.

In Africa, the Sahara separated sub-Saharan Africa from these developing civilizations. Groups in Africa were also separated from each other by hostile deserts and mountains preventing settling, idea exchanges, and states from gaining large numbers. While small civilization-kingdoms did arise in Africa (they were usually coastal), they had very little to no contact with the civilizations that would become, what we consider, western civilization until the 1400's when Portugal went down the African Coast.
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Re: The Bee

Postby falasha » Sun 04 Jul 2010 2:46 pm

dtp883 wrote:
falasha wrote:"We the Black Jews" by Dr. Yoseph Ben Jochannan

He believes that the Jews are Black and predate the Nile Civilization and come from Ethiopia.
This is not true. Dr. Ben gives much evidence of Hebrew cultural symbols from Nile valley. He merely points out what symbols are common. He does not think Jews are black. Obviously, Ashkenasi Jews are white.
While Ethiopian Jews are accepted by Israel as Jewish they are in fact genetically different. They are typically considered to be descendants of intermarried or converted Ethiopians by the semitic diaspora which was completely absorbed by them.
This is partially true. Beta Israel are genetically different from other Jews that had diaspora in other parts of the world.
They are genetically similar to the surrounding, non-Jew, Ethiopians.
This is true. So what?
Dr. Jochannan's belief are kind of like Black Hebrew Israelites in the aspects of Blacks originating Judaism and Civilization.
Not true.


You can figure that the black Jews, especially those in America, are not Jews, at least not the original, by wondering a few questions. Why do "white" Jews have the Torah?
Of course American jews (black or white) are not the original. I have no idea what you are asking when you wonder why white jews have Torah.
Why do the "white" Jews speak Hebrew (which makes sense of most Biblical Names)? Why would Hebrew be spoken down in Ethiopia when all the languages related to Hebrew are known to be spoken/have been spoken closer to Israel?
I am sorry. I don't understand what you are getting at. Hebrew is a Canaanite language.
Why does the Torah talk about locations in or near Israel, the location of the "white" Jews, like Egypt or the Dead Sea? Why are there no artifacts of a Jewish nature in Black Africa?
I have no idea what you are asking. Ashkenazim had a European diaspora. That is why they are white. Beta Israel had an African diaspora. That is why they are black. Why are you so interested in skin tones? What does that have to do with language? Do you think skin color determines your cultural symbols?


On the idea of the origins of high civilization originating in Sub-Saharan Africa, it's just wrong.
Of course. Who said it high civilization originated in sub-saharan Africa? Certainly not Dr. Ben.
This is not racist. Civilization is most likely thought to have originated on the banks of the Nile, in Egypt, the Tigris and the Euphrates, in Mesopotamia, the Yangtze, in China, and a river in India. These were extremely fertile and allowed for settled agricultural civilizations. Rivers of this magnitude do not exist in Africa so the people there were forced to stay, for the most part, Nomadic.
You are only talking about conditions after the Younger Dryas.
These primitive people near those fertile rivers formed towns and villages which were relatively easy to move between. For this reason, states, or multi-city civilizations began to form which were strengthened by the diffusion of ideas from different areas. This happened first between the inside of a civilization's bounds then outward with the other civilizations.

In Africa, the Sahara separated sub-Saharan Africa from these developing civilizations. Groups in Africa were also separated from each other by hostile deserts and mountains preventing settling, idea exchanges, and states from gaining large numbers.
This is only true after Younger Dryas
While small civilization-kingdoms did arise in Africa (they were usually coastal), they had very little to no contact with the civilizations that would become, what we consider, western civilization until the 1400's when Portugal went down the African Coast.
This is wrong. Greek speaking people (I assume they are considered Western) visited the coast of the Horn up to Sharm El Sheik before the birth of Christ.
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Re: The Bee

Postby dtp883 » Sun 04 Jul 2010 11:00 pm

The quotes got messed up some where so I'm not going to use them. Haha

I assumed what this man believed based on the book description and reviews.
Dr. Ben destroys the myth of a "white Jewish race" and the bigotry that has denied the existence of an African Jewish culture. He establishes the legitimacy of contemporary Black Jewish culture in Africa and the diaspora and predates its origin before ancient Nile Valley civilizations

Author Yosef A.A. ben-Jochannan impressively gets past the lies and false accounts that unfortunatelty has become religious doctrine to bring new meaning to the birthplace of civilization in mother Africa.[sic]


The series of questions were rhetorical.

Jew is an ethnicity and all Jewish populations except the one of Ethiopia are genetically related. Since they are not genetically related it is assumed a group of Ethiopians converted to Judaism. They may be Jews but they are not the original and they really aren't part of the diaspora.

This is wrong. Greek speaking people (I assume they are considered Western) visited the coast of the Horn up to Sharm El Sheik before the birth of Christ.


Sharm el-Sheikh is in Egypt. Since they didn't sail all the way around Africa it must mean they came by land after crossing the Mediterranean or through the Red Sea, not through sub-Saharan Africa.
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Re: The Bee

Postby falasha » Mon 05 Jul 2010 3:17 am

dtp883 wrote:The quotes got messed up some where so I'm not going to use them. Haha

I assumed what this man believed based on the book description and reviews.
Dr. Ben destroys the myth of a "white Jewish race" and the bigotry that has denied the existence of an African Jewish culture. He establishes the legitimacy of contemporary Black Jewish culture in Africa and the diaspora and predates its origin before ancient Nile Valley civilizations

Author Yosef A.A. ben-Jochannan impressively gets past the lies and false accounts that unfortunatelty has become religious doctrine to bring new meaning to the birthplace of civilization in mother Africa.[sic]


The series of questions were rhetorical.

Jew is an ethnicity and all Jewish populations except the one of Ethiopia are genetically related. Since they are not genetically related it is assumed a group of Ethiopians converted to Judaism. They may be Jews but they are not the original and they really aren't part of the diaspora.

This is wrong. Greek speaking people (I assume they are considered Western) visited the coast of the Horn up to Sharm El Sheik before the birth of Christ.


Sharm el-Sheikh is in Egypt. Since they didn't sail all the way around Africa it must mean they came by land after crossing the Mediterranean or through the Red Sea, not through sub-Saharan Africa.


"Destroys the myth of white jewish race".

I actually read this book not just read reviews although it has been some years. He merely states in his book that the Hebrews that left the Nile valley were African. I don't think anyone can argue with that. I think the reviewer was trying to be controversial. He recounts the common cultural symbols between Egyptian and Jewish culture - again inarguable.

If he predates this culture before HIGH Nile civilization I am not aware of this. But since every contention he makes is very well documented with many examples, perhaps he is correct. I will investigate more fully. There is a Havilah that is associated with the city of Enoch some speculate is located in Northern Malawi along the great rift valley. Maybe this is what he is meaning.

The "Greek speakers" came through Petra, Medina and Sana along the caravan route to Aden then sailed to points along the horn and describing the tribes and their economies. I will try and find the link.
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Re: The Bee

Postby falasha » Mon 05 Jul 2010 7:44 am

On the Erythraean Sea
Here is the link; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agatharchides
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Re: The Bee

Postby dtp883 » Mon 05 Jul 2010 7:45 am

"Destroys the myth of white jewish race".

I actually read this book not just read reviews...

That was actually the part from the book description.
The "Greek speakers" came through Petra, Medina and Sana along the caravan route to Aden then sailed to points along the horn and describing the tribes and their economies. I will try and find the link.

Don't worry about the link. You're right about the Greeks meeting the Black Africans but it was well after Greek was a well established culture. Either way, you were right.
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