Poyn tij!

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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby Talib » Fri 04 Jun 2010 8:29 pm

Lol yes I do forget.
How to write them, or how they look?
It should be bejkingo by that pronunciation. And they should have changed it a while ago to bejghingo. It follows all the other rules of romanization in Esperanto with actual cities. Why should Chinese people learn extra words just for Europeans' sake.
Esperanto allows for spelling reforms, doesn't it? It's not a big deal to change from Pekino to Bejĝingo if it reflects the modern pronunciation better.

Although I can't stress how little I care about it.
Just curious, you speak Chinese right?
Barely.
Because it's easier to type pinyin, and most of my friends are more proficient in pinyin than characters. It's so much more complex to typpe in Chinese and I haven't figured out how to type Chinese on this computer. I can on my computer but not this one.
It's not hard to install a Chinese keyboard if you use Windows.
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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby Huixuan » Sat 05 Jun 2010 3:32 pm

How to write them, or how they look?

The ones so complex you can't pick up every stroke are hard for me to remember.
Esperanto allows for spelling reforms, doesn't it? It's not a big deal to change from Pekino to Bejĝingo if it reflects the modern pronunciation better.

Although I can't stress how little I care about it.

That's not my point. What bothers me is the using of European roots for Asian words. I don't understand what you don't get. Almost all esperanto roots have European origins somehow. Why Chinio for China? Why not Chonkuo with or without breve on the u? Why Kantonio for Guangdong? It bothers me how Esperanto is Eurocentric. And even then, why didn't it include Chinese roots in the language? Don't say Esperanto never reached Chinio because it did.

It's not hard to install a Chinese keyboard if you use Windows.


Were you not listening? I just said that most of my friends can't write characters that well.
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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby Talib » Sat 05 Jun 2010 3:58 pm

That's not my point. What bothers me is the using of European roots for Asian words. I don't understand what you don't get. Almost all esperanto roots have European origins somehow. Why Chinio for China? Why not Chonkuo with or without breve on the u? Why Kantonio for Guangdong? It bothers me how Esperanto is Eurocentric. And even then, why didn't it include Chinese roots in the language? Don't say Esperanto never reached Chinio because it did.
Hey, I'm not denying Esperanto is horribly Eurocentric. That's why I don't like it myself (well, one of the reasons). But China, Canton and Peking are still ultimately Chinese names even if they've been transmitted through European languages first.

Were you not listening? I just said that most of my friends can't write characters that well.
Yes, and this will do it for you. You enter the pinyin and it automatically converts to characters. Or do you mean they can't read characters well either?
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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby Huixuan » Sun 06 Jun 2010 5:57 am

Hey, I'm not denying Esperanto is horribly Eurocentric. That's why I don't like it myself (well, one of the reasons). But China, Canton and Peking are still ultimately Chinese names even if they've been transmitted through European languages first.
. Esperanto=European ignorance
Yes, and this will do it for you. You enter the pinyin and it automatically converts to characters. Or do you mean they can't read characters well either?
lol how can I explain this to you? My friends speak Chinese fine but they often don't mentally have inventories of characters in their brains comparable to their speaking abilities. So if I type 杂 they're like come again and I type za and they're like ohhhhhhhh I knew that. In other words, ta men neng xie han zi; ta men bu hui xie zi. 他们能些汉字。他们不会些字。This is why I dislike English so much. Stop making me insult my friends lol. They know how to write character but they could type in pinyin more easily wihthout having to go to the Chinese dictionary. Do you acknowledge it's possible to speak a language and not read it? Chinese people aren't born with characters in their head or else Chinese literacy would be higher and there wouldn't be simplified Chinese. Sorry for rambling like you were a three year old, but I am terrible at explanations.
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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby Talib » Sun 06 Jun 2010 7:59 am

Esperanto=European ignorance
Yeah. That's to be expected when it was created by a European in the 19th century.
lol how can I explain this to you? My friends speak Chinese fine but they often don't mentally have inventories of characters in their brains comparable to their speaking abilities. So if I type 杂 they're like come again and I type za and they're like ohhhhhhhh I knew that. In other words, ta men neng xie han zi; ta men bu hui xie zi. 他们能些汉字。他们不会些字。This is why I dislike English so much. Stop making me insult my friends lol. They know how to write character but they could type in pinyin more easily wihthout having to go to the Chinese dictionary. Do you acknowledge it's possible to speak a language and not read it? Chinese people aren't born with characters in their head or else Chinese literacy would be higher and there wouldn't be simplified Chinese. Sorry for rambling like you were a three year old, but I am terrible at explanations.
I don't understand why they don't know characters better.
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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby Huixuan » Mon 07 Jun 2010 4:27 am

Yeah. That's to be expected when it was created by a European in the 19th century.
Exactly. Esperanto is only what can be expected. Mr. Z should have gone east to China to research a better language, but he didn't. When his little Poland get's taken over by Chinese people what can he say

I don't understand why they don't know characters better.

Average life of an overseas Asian: Born in China, moved to US at age 5, raised speaking some dialect of Chinese then at age 8 "Do I have to go do Chinese School?" "You need learn write character or else you not Chinese. You like it. You should join three years ago." Then by age 14 they're in fifth grade in Chinese school, but XD they forgot 90% of it because they didn't like Chinese school (imagine that!!!). "Why you get A- in Chinese school? When I was your age I walk three miles for learn character. You should be thankful." I'm not going to explain this anymore because this is sort of hopeless. Go ask your nearest Chinese friend if you still don't get it.
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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby dtp883 » Tue 08 Jun 2010 3:25 am

It's pretty ignorant to say that Esperanto comes from European Ignorance. Yes it is Euro-centric, and yes it is based on European roots but it was made by a European, and was spoken at first mainly by Europeans. It is easy for Europeans to see and relate many of the words but there are many that are foreign to them too. No one, Chinese or not, is forced to learn Esperanto. Saying that he should have gone to China and based his language off a better language is hypocrisy.

Also, "Mr. Z" has been dead for a long time and I'd hope that Chinese people moving to Poland would learn Polish. This is besides the fact that more roots in Esperanto are Latinate and not Slavic and that Esperanto is no more popular in Poland than anywhere else.

By the way, I'm not saying you are ignorant, you seem pretty smart. I personally think that the roots of a word in an artificial language are a very insignificant thing to get worked up over.
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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby Talib » Tue 08 Jun 2010 3:45 am

When his little Poland get's taken over by Chinese people what can he say
Nothing, because he's dead. But the EU is probably more sustainable in the long run than the PRC anyway.
Average life of an overseas Asian: Born in China, moved to US at age 5, raised speaking some dialect of Chinese then at age 8 "Do I have to go do Chinese School?" "You need learn write character or else you not Chinese. You like it. You should join three years ago." Then by age 14 they're in fifth grade in Chinese school, but XD they forgot 90% of it because they didn't like Chinese school.
This is more like the life of any second-generation immigrant. But if their parents teach them to speak, I think they should teach them to write as well. From early childhood. That's the best way to learn any language, including heritage languages.
Saying that he should have gone to China and based his language off a better language is hypocrisy.
I read that as "he should have gone to China for the purposes of making his language better." Ambiguity is a big problem in texts.
I personally think that the roots of a word in an artificial language are a very insignificant thing to get worked up over.
When it's purported to be a culturally neutral language, not really.
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Re: Poyn tij!

Postby Huixuan » Thu 10 Jun 2010 3:35 pm

It's pretty ignorant to say that Esperanto comes from European Ignorance. Yes it is Euro-centric, and yes it is based on European roots but it was made by a European, and was spoken at first mainly by Europeans. It is easy for Europeans to see and relate many of the words but there are many that are foreign to them too. No one, Chinese or not, is forced to learn Esperanto. Saying that he should have gone to China and based his language off a better language is hypocrisy.
Sorry for getting worked up, but assuming we want a suitable auxlang, it needs to be easy to learn for most people, and there are more people in China than in Europe. Of course there's grammar and semantics issues which would be difficult to easterners a and that's the huge part, but consider the Pekino and Kantono just blare out the laziness of the people who made the language.
Nothing, because he's dead. But the EU is probably more sustainable in the long run than the PRC anyway.
I was joking. But if you want my opinion, China would be huge once the Nationalists come back to power.
This is more like the life of any second-generation immigrant. But if their parents teach them to speak, I think they should teach them to write as well. From early childhood. That's the best way to learn any language, including heritage languages.
You really need to get in touch with some Asian Americans. From early childhood, they have to learn to play piano and violin, attend hundreds of academic classes to prepare for the SAT or whatever, and go to Chinese school, while the father spends twelve hours a day being an engineer and the mother manages her three dentistry practices, with added business if the family is Christian. Maybe I'm exaggerating, because I'm not first generation Chinese, but there's nevertheless a lot of stuff going on in an Asian household and out.
I personally think that the roots of a word in an artificial language are a very insignificant thing to get worked up over.
True, but like I said before, words like Pekino and Kantono blare out the Eurocentricity of the language.
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