Manju gisun

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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Thu 10 Dec 2009 12:59 am

VROOR wrote:The stress of the manchu language usually (but not always) falls upon the first syllable.

When would it not be on the 1st syllable? Is there a rule?
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Thu 10 Dec 2009 3:44 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:
VROOR wrote:The stress of the manchu language usually (but not always) falls upon the first syllable.

When would it not be on the 1st syllable? Is there a rule?


There is a rule on the stress: basically, when the word is a combined word or a loan word, the stress might not be on the first syllable (but, sometimes the stress would be on the first syllable)...for the case of combine words, the rule of stress falls on the last syllable if they are two syllabled words, or on the second to last syllable if they are more than two syllabled words.

In the case of loan words, the rules can be somewhat erratic...in other words, the stress of them has to be learnt by heart at the time of acquiring the word.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Fri 11 Dec 2009 1:04 am

VROOR wrote:for the case of combine words, the rule of stress falls on the last syllable if they are two syllabled words, or on the second to last syllable if they are more than two syllabled words.

Could you give an example of a "combine word"?
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Fri 11 Dec 2009 2:55 am

Sobekhotep wrote:Could you give an example of a "combine word"?


【ᡩᠣᠪᡴᡝ】dobke, 【ᡩᠣᠪᡵᡳ】dobri +【ᡴᡝᠰᡳᡴᡝ】kesike.
【ᠵᡠᠸᡝᡵᡤᡝ】juwerge, 【ᠵᡠᠸᡝ】juwe + 【ᠰᡳᡵᡤᡝ】sirge.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Sat 12 Dec 2009 6:54 am

VROOR wrote:
Sobekhotep wrote:Could you give an example of a "combine word"?


【ᡩᠣᠪᡴᡝ】dobke, 【ᡩᠣᠪᡵᡳ】dobri +【ᡴᡝᠰᡳᡴᡝ】kesike.
【ᠵᡠᠸᡝᡵᡤᡝ】juwerge, 【ᠵᡠᠸᡝ】juwe + 【ᠰᡳᡵᡤᡝ】sirge.

Oh, wow! That's interesting! :)
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Sat 12 Dec 2009 8:52 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:
VROOR wrote:
Sobekhotep wrote:Could you give an example of a "combine word"?


【ᡩᠣᠪᡴᡝ】dobke, 【ᡩᠣᠪᡵᡳ】dobri +【ᡴᡝᠰᡳᡴᡝ】kesike.
【ᠵᡠᠸᡝᡵᡤᡝ】juwerge, 【ᠵᡠᠸᡝ】juwe + 【ᠰᡳᡵᡤᡝ】sirge.

Oh, wow! That's interesting! :)


Well...it is like...maybe hundreds of years ago, some of the Manchurian ancestors of mine suddenly decided not to adopt loans from either Chinese nor Mongolian and, started to invent authentic manchu words with this type of combinations...

...however, in reality...it is more like...what the hell? Seriously, we even got totally odd and useless words in there...for instance: 【ᡠᠶᡠᡵᡳ】uyuri which is 【ᡠᡠ】uu (this is not even a darn manchu word, it is just a sound mimic of the animals...) combined with 【ᠨᡳᠨᡠᡵᡳ】ninuri, slave girl (a loan from Mandarin Chinese). Now, 【ᡠᠶᡠᡵᡳ】means "cat" when we already have a manchu word for "cat" - 【ᡴᡝᠰᡳᡴᡝ】kesike...so, why bother inventing another word for it? Then again, what does the cat got anything to do the "slave girls"? And why is the cat making the sound of "uu" and not "meow"?...oh, blinking what the hell?
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Sun 13 Dec 2009 5:34 am

VROOR wrote:...however, in reality...it is more like...what the hell? Seriously, we even got totally odd and useless words in there...for instance: 【ᡠᠶᡠᡵᡳ】uyuri which is 【ᡠᡠ】uu (this is not even a darn manchu word, it is just a sound mimic of the animals...) combined with 【ᠨᡳᠨᡠᡵᡳ】ninuri, slave girl (a loan from Mandarin Chinese). Now, 【ᡠᠶᡠᡵᡳ】means "cat" when we already have a manchu word for "cat" - 【ᡴᡝᠰᡳᡴᡝ】kesike...so, why bother inventing another word for it? Then again, what does the cat got anything to do the "slave girls"? And why is the cat making the sound of "uu" and not "meow"?...oh, blinking what the hell?

:lol:
Regarding cats & slave girls, in some languages, like Portuguese, it's not uncommon to refer to women as cats. Maybe that's where the connection comes from.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Kyuzo Aoi » Tue 25 Sep 2012 7:58 pm

Bumping this thread...

Does anyone post in this topic? Because I found a Cyrillic alphabet for Sibe.

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=joE ... ic&f=false

From the Russian Wikipedia:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0% ... 0%BA%D1%82

And the Xibe Cyrillic script itself:

Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Ғғ, Дд, Ее, Ёё, Жж, Җҗ, Зз, Ии, Йй, Кк, Ққ, Лл, Мм, Нн, Ңң, Оо, Өө, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Үү, Фф, Хх, Ҳҳ, Цц, Чч, Шш, ы, Яя, ь.

To translate:

Aa, Bb, Vv, Gg, Gh gh, Dd, Ee, Yo yo, Zh zh, Jj, Zz, Ii, Yy, Kk, Kh kh, Ll, Mm, Nn, Ng ng, Oo, Oe oe, Pp, Rr, Ss, Tt, Uu, Ww, Ff, Hh, Xx, Ts ts, Ch ch, Sh sh, short e, Ya ya, sign of thinness.

Originally, the authorities wanted to use the Cyrillic alphabet for Sibe, but it was discontinued when relations between China and the USSR soured.

In my humble opinion, Manchu could survive better if the Cyrillic alphabet is used alongside the original Manchu script. Don't get me wrong, Manchu and Sibe script is cool, but literacy wise, Cyrillic would be more effective.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Elijah » Fri 05 Oct 2012 1:39 am

Dang. I want to learn Manchu.
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