Manju gisun

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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Sun 29 Nov 2009 1:02 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:
VROOR wrote:【ᠪᠣᡩᠣᡨᡠᠨ】bodotun which is known as 計算機 in China

Wait, isn't <計算機> a calculator? I thought <電腦> was "computer".


In Mainland China 計算機 is a computer but, in Taiwan it is a calculator. This vocabularic difference has proved to be very very very annoying...

Once I was documenting a few linguistic files in Shanghai and, my notebook ran-out of battery. So, I asked a co-mate to borrow her 計算機 of which, she opened her bag and handed me a calculator...eventually I asked her: "errr... miss, you are from Taiwan, right?"

Sobekhotep wrote:
VROOR wrote:for 【ᡴᡠᡨᡠᠯᡝ ᡤᡳᠰᡠᡨᡠᠨ】kutule gisutun, its meaning is obvious "message-carrier".

Cool. How about the word for a regular telephone, as in a land line?


a telephone is usually called as 【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᡨᡠᠨ】gisutun.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Mon 30 Nov 2009 1:24 am

kaenif wrote:
Sobekhotep wrote:
VROOR wrote:【ᠪᠣᡩᠣᡨᡠᠨ】bodotun which is known as 計算機 in China

Wait, isn't <計算機> a calculator? I thought <電腦> was "computer". :?


<計算機> is mainland usage. A calculator is <計算器>.
<電腦> is used in Taiwan, HK and Macau, I think.

Oh, I see. In Sino-Korean & Sino-Japanese, <機> & <器> are homophones making <計算機> & <計算器> sound the exact same! :)

VROOR wrote:telephone is usually called as 【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᡨᡠᠨ】gisutun.

Is that word somehow related to the word【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᠨ】? Perhaps there's a verb【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᠮᠪᡳ】meaning something like "carry" or "transmit"?
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Mon 30 Nov 2009 2:42 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:Is that word somehow related to the word【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᠨ】? Perhaps there's a verb【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᠮᠪᡳ】meaning something like "carry" or "transmit"?


The word 【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᡨᡠᠨ】gisutun is from 【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᡵᡝᠮᠪᡳ】gisurembi of which means to speak. Hence, 【ᡤᡳᠰᡠᡨᡠᠨ】technically means a messenger or an object for speech whilst 【ᡴᡠᡨᡠᠯᡝ ᡤᡳᠰᡠᡨᡠᠨ】kutule gisutun has the word 【ᡴᡠᡨᡠᠯᡝ】kutule added to its modification, and thus, it means something akin to a message carrier or a carriable messenger.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Tue 01 Dec 2009 12:38 am

Do you happen to know the etymology behind the word【ᠴᠣᠣᡥᡳᠶᠠᠨ】(coohiyan; Korean)? It doesn't seem to be related to any of the other names for Korea I know of.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Tue 01 Dec 2009 4:27 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:Do you happen to know the etymology behind the word【ᠴᠣᠣᡥᡳᠶᠠᠨ】(coohiyan; Korean)? It doesn't seem to be related to any of the other names for Korea I know of.


It is not written as【ᠴᠣᠣᡥᡳᠶᠠᠨ】coohiyan but, written as【ᠴᠣᠣᠰᡳᠶᠠᠨ】coosiyan of which is taken from the Korean Dynasty's name "Joseon".
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Wed 02 Dec 2009 12:51 am

VROOR wrote:
Sobekhotep wrote:Do you happen to know the etymology behind the word【ᠴᠣᠣᡥᡳᠶᠠᠨ】(coohiyan; Korean)? It doesn't seem to be related to any of the other names for Korea I know of.


It is not written as【ᠴᠣᠣᡥᡳᠶᠠᠨ】coohiyan but, written as【ᠴᠣᠣᠰᡳᠶᠠᠨ】coosiyan of which is taken from the Korean Dynasty's name "Joseon".

Ah, that makes sense. But if it comes from 조선/朝鮮 why is it 3 syllables in Manchu? Or is the siyan pronounced as 1 syllable? :?
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Wed 02 Dec 2009 1:23 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:But if it comes from 조선/朝鮮 why is it 3 syllables in Manchu? Or is the siyan pronounced as 1 syllable?


The word 【ᠴᠣᠣᠰᡳᠶᠠᠨ】coosiyan is a two syllables word, "-siyan" is pronounced as "ssyan" with a slight emphasis on "s", that is the reason why it is written as coosiyan and not coosyan. This is the same for the double "oo" in 【ᠴᠣᠣᠰᡳᠶᠠᠨ】coosiyan of which, is not pronounced as the double "oo" as in moon, nor it is pronounced as two separate syllables. The double "oo" in the manchu language is, a type of empasised "O".
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Thu 03 Dec 2009 1:09 am

VROOR wrote:The word 【ᠴᠣᠣᠰᡳᠶᠠᠨ】coosiyan is a two syllables word, "-siyan" is pronounced as "ssyan" with a slight emphasis on "s", that is the reason why it is written as coosiyan and not coosyan. This is the same for the double "oo" in 【ᠴᠣᠣᠰᡳᠶᠠᠨ】coosiyan of which, is not pronounced as the double "oo" as in moon, nor it is pronounced as two separate syllables. The double "oo" in the manchu language is, a type of empasised "O".

Yeah, I already knew about the oo.
So, basically,【ᠴᠣᠣᠰᡳᠶᠠᠨ】should be pronounced like [ʧoːɕan], right?
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Thu 03 Dec 2009 4:54 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:So, basically,【ᠴᠣᠣᠰᡳᠶᠠᠨ】should be pronounced like [ʧoːɕan], right?


I am not versed in the IPA or X-Sampa (or any famous notations out there), and thus, I cannot understand the sounds stated with that notation given; however, it looks like two syllables and, that part should be correct.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Fri 04 Dec 2009 1:24 am

VROOR wrote:I am not versed in the IPA or X-Sampa (or any famous notations out there), and thus, I cannot understand the sounds stated with that notation given

I highly recommend that you learn the IPA. It's very useful & not that difficult to learn.
I'll describe what I transcribed. The 1st syllable is a voiceless palato-alveolar affricate followed by a long close-mid back rounded vowel. The 2nd syllable is a voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative followed by an open central unrounded vowel & a dental nasal.
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