Those denials are not actually made by especially Japanese scholars. Please keep in-mind those Koreans who have both acquired Japanese identities and name. Most of these so-called academic dismissals were formed on racialistic and nationalistic points.



We should not mix religious faith with historical linguistics.



There are evidences in both Mainland China and Japan as well as on the Korean Penisula that, the Jindai Moji has existed predated Hangeul by two thousand years.



And says who the Jindai Moji characters are a syllabry? They presume it is a syllabry when the entire Jindai Moji characters are not actually deciphered. Such presumptions are common, but also, likely to be in total error.



It's the other-way-round.

Where to begin.....
First, starting with sources, the two best and most complete sources for Jindai Moji IMHO are
1 日本神代文字研究原典 by 吾郷清彦(Agou Kiyohiko) - This book has a great analysis of nearly all the Jindai artefacts in Japan and tables of most of the existant Jindai moji syllabaries that have appeared throughout history.
2 幽真界神字集纂 by 大宮司郎 (Oomiya Shirou(?)) - This book is a compellation of older sources, namely 神字日文伝 by 平田篤胤; 神字彙 by 岩崎長世; 嘉永刪定神字文字考 by 鶴峯戊申; 日本古代文字考 by 落合直澄; and 鴻濛字典 by 宮地水位.
Beyond these two books and 3~4 Bunkou paper-back books (Takeuchi chronicles, crystal skull, and how Japanese are actually descended from aliens), I know of no others that specifically address Jindai Moji printed after WW2.

From any of the above sources, they are all inextricably linked to Koshinto. Jindai-moji is part and parcel linked to this, especially as the result of the "Emperor is God" mentality that prevaded Japan form the Meiji Restoration to the end of WW2....so, I fully agree with your statement "We should not mix religious faith with historical linguistics."

To continue:
http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwo ... tryID=1225 has a very good synopsis on Jindai Moji. Please keep in mind, that it was the Japanese Nationalists who pushed the concept of Jindai Moji as they felt it to be an embarassment that Japan had not developed it's own indigenous script millennia ago. I'm not sure why they didn't just take pride in Kana as it fits the Japanese language very well.

Please show proof. Indulge my skepticism.

Umm.....all of the authors who I listed in the previous post and who are the original promoters of Jindaimoji.....Hirata, Iwasaki, Tsurugamine, Ochiai, Miyachi, and others (Takeuchi, Atsutane, etc)...they all list the Jindai-moji in the form of syllabries. Do you know something they didn't?
Granted, there is an eerie similarity to Daoist 霊符 and the squiglier Jindaiji like Ahiru-moji, but that might just be coincidence. Anyway, I look forward to your proof of Jindai Moji's antiquity

Please compare the Jindai Moji with the Ancient Chinese Writing known as Jiaguwen. There is a special sample presented by me in this forum, within the thread titled "Show your Calligraphy" or something like that.



Ever occured to you that, they might not even understand the language? and from their own nationalism and/or academic prides, they made their claims based on claiming what they actually do not know?



It isn't a coincidence. (Linguistics is just like the Jedi Force, there are no such things as coincidences. There is always an origin, always a factual starting point). The taoistic talismanic writing is based upon the ancient Jiaguwen as well as the seal script (of which, the seal script is based on the Jiaguwen also).



From what I have stated above, it is pretty obvious now. Jindai Moji is a continuation of Jiaguwen in Japan. forget about the nationalism and religious claims, just focus upon the forms of Jiaguwen and Jindai Moji. Truth to be told, the term "Jindai Moji" was coined by those who are firm on the religious claims, yet it is just another style of ancient Chinese characters.

Umm....Japanese scholars not understanding Japanese? I have no idea what point you are trying to make? Do you really know what Jindaimoji is as defined in Japan? There are a bunch of Jindaimoji (Hotsuma, Iyo, Koretare) that systematically indicate syllables....What would they have to do with the Jiaguwen which is logographic? Again, the Jindaimoji was promoted in Japan as a syllabry.....not logographs. As such, I don't follow your line of reasoning and what Jianguwen has to do with Jindaimoji

If you are saying Jiaguwen = Jindaimoji, then we are talking about 2 different animals.

My point was already clear in my earlier response to you: jindai moji is not a Japanese creation but, Chinese. The language recorded can possibly be ancient Chinese but, it can be also possible to be ancient Japanese (just like the Vietnamese adopted Chinese Characters).



Those were all the different parts of the same language's characters discovered and/or used by different scholars who claimed those are syllablic writings. Those are characters or parts of characters (which were dismembered and mix-n-matched), not syllables.



That is because you are not seeing the link between Jiaguwen and Jindai Moji. By taking your view, we then can claim the Latin Alphabet is a logograph of which you cannot deny as long as there are scholars support this claim.



Very well, then we are two different animals. No one right, no one wrong; different views and that does us apart. Let us end this topic for now until we both can acquire more beneficial things to share with each other, shall we?

Not to spoil the fun but maybe this debate should be restarted in a new thread. Here we go: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=269

Since this thread is mine and, I am the one who started this side-topic, I am ending it here as it is. Thank you for pointing it out.

I'm shocked for one. I don't know what to believe now ( care to straighten me out? )......

Pretty scripties regardless.

Me and a few others have been writing some articles on the Chữ Nôm Test Wiki. I translated the Lord's Prayer into Nôm yesterday: http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/ ... 0%A4%95%94

In order to view the Nôm characters, you may need to install the Hán Nôm fonts A and B. If not, here's an image of it. It's colour coded, Black = Original Chinese character (Hán), Blue = Invented Vietnamese character (Nôm).