Manju gisun

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To: Sobekhotep

Postby VROOR » Sun 15 Nov 2009 2:10 pm

By the way, "ere manju hergen oci" is not really a valid Manchu sentence despite its meaning can be understood, it will be more valid by using this sentence: "ere oci manjui hergen inu"
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The difference of the two sentences is akin to saying "me want food" and "I am hungry" in English.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Mon 16 Nov 2009 1:05 am

VROOR wrote:the sound shifts cannot really be shown with the Jurchen writing system.

OK, that makes sense.

VROOR wrote:
Sobekhotep wrote:Also, can you read the Manchu script when it's sideways like this: ᡝᡵᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᠣᠴᡳ


Are you trying to write "ere manju hergen oci"

Yes, that's it! So, I guess that means you can read it when it's horizontal.

VROOR wrote:By the way, "ere manju hergen oci" is not really a valid Manchu sentence despite its meaning can be understood, it will be more valid by using this sentence: "ere oci manjui hergen inu"

Thanks for the tip. :)
ᡝᡵᡝ ᠣᠴᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᡳᠨᡠ :mrgreen:
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Mon 16 Nov 2009 4:55 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:So, I guess that means you can read it when it's horizontal.


Truth is, it is pretty obvious. It is no different from reading English vertically of which, is not natural but not impossible to understand. The Manchurian Font and KeyMap are the start of the New Manchu Era, the final goal is to be able to use the Manchu Script on the Internet written in the style which it is intented. For now, we have to settle it written horizontally.

Also, about the sentence 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠣᠴᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᡳᠨᡠ】ere oci manjui hergen inu, this is what we would write but, in speech it is allowed to shorten the phrase to: 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ】ere manju hergen or 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ】ere manjui hergen. The difference between 【ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ】manjui and 【ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ】manju is akin to the difference between "Manchurian" and "Manchu".

I am curious that, where did you learn of the Daicing Manchu Font and KeyMap? After all, it is not really that popular, more so outside the Manchurian online communities.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Tue 17 Nov 2009 2:02 am

VROOR wrote:about the sentence 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠣᠴᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᡳᠨᡠ】ere oci manjui hergen inu, this is what we would write but, in speech it is allowed to shorten the phrase to: 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ】ere manju hergen or 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ】ere manjui hergen.

Again, thanks for the tip! :)

VROOR wrote:The difference between 【ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ】manjui and 【ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ】manju is akin to the difference between "Manchurian" and "Manchu".

Right, because 【ᡳ】(i) is the genitive/instrumentive suffix.

VROOR wrote:I am curious that, where did you learn of the Daicing Manchu Font and KeyMap? After all, it is not really that popular, more so outside the Manchurian online communities.

I don't have that font. I have a unicode font called Code2000 which has Mongolian & Manchu.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Tue 17 Nov 2009 3:54 am

Sobekhotep wrote:I have a unicode font called Code2000 which has Mongolian & Manchu.


That is nice to know other individuals have been working on these scripts' fonts.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Neqitan » Tue 17 Nov 2009 6:09 am

*cough, cough* Windows Vista already ships with a font for Mongolian/Manchu: "Mongolian Baiti". *cough*
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Tue 17 Nov 2009 6:16 am

Neqitan wrote:*cough, cough* Windows Vista already ships with a font for Mongolian/Manchu: "Mongolian Baiti". *cough*


My computer does not run on Windows Vista; thus, I am not aware of this Vista feature. In fact, I have no valid knowledge of the Windows Vista. Not everyone uses Windows and, amongst those who do, not all of them uses Vista.

Nevertheless, thank you for the information.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Tue 17 Nov 2009 6:27 am

The sentence 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠣᠴᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᡳᠨᡠ】actually is traditionally written as 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠣᠴᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ‍ᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᡳᠨᡠ】, with the 【ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ】written as 【ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ‍ᡳ】. In other words, manju and i are considered as two words but, because i modifies the word manju, it is written with the special form as 【‍‍‍‍‍᠍‍ᡳ】instead of the normal form as 【ᡳ】.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Wed 18 Nov 2009 1:02 am

Neqitan wrote:*cough, cough* Windows Vista already ships with a font for Mongolian/Manchu: "Mongolian Baiti". *cough*

I'm still stuck with XP. :cry:

VROOR wrote:The sentence 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠣᠴᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᡳᠨᡠ】actually is traditionally written as 【ᡝᡵᡝ ᠣᠴᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ‍ᡳ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᡳᠨᡠ】, with the 【ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠᡳ】written as 【ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ‍ᡳ】. In other words, manju and i are considered as two words but, because i modifies the word manju, it is written with the special form as 【‍‍‍‍‍᠍‍ᡳ】instead of the normal form as 【ᡳ】.

I like it better that way, attaching the case suffixes (particles?) to the word they modify instead of as a separate word. Can you do that with all the other particles like【ᠪᡝ】,【ᡩᡝ】,【ᠴᡳ】,【ᡩᡝᡵᡳ】etc.?
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Neqitan » Wed 18 Nov 2009 2:41 am

Sobekhotep wrote:
Neqitan wrote:*cough, cough* Windows Vista already ships with a font for Mongolian/Manchu: "Mongolian Baiti". *cough*

I'm still stuck with XP. :cry:

Blah, Vista is not worth it, I'm juststill stuck with Windows OS's.
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