Manju gisun

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Manju gisun

Postby Sean of the Dead » Fri 13 Nov 2009 12:49 am

Ubade we manju gisun be tacimbi? :D

Is anybody here learning Manchu or want to learn it? I thnk it's amazingly awesome; I love it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Fri 13 Nov 2009 1:48 am

I like it. I was studying it several months ago. I actually created my own Cyrillic alphabet to write it with, because I don't like the romanization and I didn't feel like learning the script. :)
Also, all the other Tungusic languages have Cyrillic scripts.

Ubade we manju gisun be tacimbi?

This is how that would look in my Manchu Cyrillic alphabet: Үбадэ вэ манжү гисүмбэ тачимби?
I would reply with: Би тачиха. :D
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sean of the Dead » Fri 13 Nov 2009 2:27 am

What?! I love the script, I'm going to learn it over the next few days. 8-)

You write cases as suffixes? I prefer as a single word, because it makes it kind of like Japanese. :lol:

Oh, whatever happened to learning Mongolian? I remember you were several months ago; you first got me interested in it. :) I actually love Mongolian, more so than Manchu, and am going to start learning it soon, when I get some books I "ordered". ;)

Mongolian sounds so beautiful! Have you seen Mongol? It's an awesome movie, way better than I expected. I first wanted to watch it just because I loved the sound of Mongolian and wanted to hear it, and didn't really know much about the movie, but it's probably in my top 10 favorite movies. :ugeek:

Why did you stop learning Manchu? You said you knew no speakers, but if I were to tell there I know a forum with several Manchu speakers, would you want to try learning it again? :P

Minde monggo gisun jai manju gisun taciki sembi. 8-)
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Fri 13 Nov 2009 2:05 pm

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Manju oci, emu colgoropi fulu sain uksura bicibe, ne sihaha de bakcilara jakade, muse urunakv ilinjime tucifi, musei ulandunjiha xu wen be karmaca. Geli sibei hefelingguse i dosire be okdombi, muse de gese fulehe da bimbime, gala jafandume, musei abka be weileceme aracaki.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Sat 14 Nov 2009 2:22 am

Sean of the Dead wrote:You write cases as suffixes? I prefer as a single word, because it makes it kind of like Japanese. :lol:

I disagree. I consider the Japanese particles to be suffixes to the word it modifies. So, I consider a word like <汚れやすいことは> to be 1 word and would romanize it as such: yogoreyasuikotowa.
This is the reason why I write the Manchu suffixes as part of the word it modifies. :D

Sean of the Dead wrote:Oh, whatever happened to learning Mongolian? I remember you were several months ago; you first got me interested in it. :) I actually love Mongolian, more so than Manchu, and am going to start learning it soon, when I get some books I "ordered". ;)

I stopped learning Mongolian because I don't really like the sound of it anymore. It just sounds too rough, in my opinion. :) I like Manchu better.

Sean of the Dead wrote:Have you seen Mongol? It's an awesome movie, way better than I expected. I first wanted to watch it just because I loved the sound of Mongolian and wanted to hear it, and didn't really know much about the movie, but it's probably in my top 10 favorite movies. :ugeek:

Yeah, I've seen it. I liked it a lot, also. But the main characters in that movie are not Mongolian or Mongolian speakers. I guess they memorized their lines phonetically or something.

Sean of the Dean wrote:Why did you stop learning Manchu? You said you knew no speakers, but if I were to tell there I know a forum with several Manchu speakers, would you want to try learning it again? :P

You mentioned such forum and provided a link to it in another thread. But 1 forum isn't really enough. I need Manchu language media. I need books, magazines, tv shows, movies, radio broadcasting, etc. Right now, it's impossible to get spoken input in the language.

VROOR wrote:Manju oci, emu colgoropi fulu sain uksura bicibe, ne sihaha de bakcilara jakade, muse urunakv ilinjime tucifi, musei ulandunjiha xu wen be karmaca. Geli sibei hefelingguse i dosire be okdombi, muse de gese fulehe da bimbime, gala jafandume, musei abka be weileceme aracaki.

This is WAY beyond my ability! :oops:
All I caught is Manju oci, so I guess you're Manchu. I didn't know there were Manchus in Taiwan...

I had an idea once for a new Manchu orthography. It would revive the old Jurchen script & use that for native Manchu nouns, verb stems, adjective stems, etc. Then, simplified Chinese characters would be used to write loanwords from Chinese. Finally, the Manchu script would be used for everything else. But, I admit, this style is similar to the way Japanese uses a mix of kanji & kana so I don't know how Manchus would feel about that. :|
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sean of the Dead » Sat 14 Nov 2009 2:53 am

I disagree. I consider the Japanese particles to be suffixes to the word it modifies. So, I consider a word like <汚れやすいことは> to be 1 word and would romanize it as such: yogoreyasuikotowa.
This is the reason why I write the Manchu suffixes as part of the word it modifies. :D

Well, since Japanese isn't written with spaces, the idea of "suffix" and "particle" can't really apply, since they'd both work in the same way, but for me it's the opposite, I think of them as particles; but it doesn't matter. :P

I stopped learning Mongolian because I don't really like the sound of it anymore. It just sounds too rough, in my opinion. :) I like Manchu better.

They both sound beautiful to me, but the "roughness" of Mongolian is what I love. :D
Have you heard of Sung Sidung? He sings some songs in Manchu (and maybe Sibe, not sure :P ) and Mandarin, and my favorite song by him is this. Half of it's in Manchu, half in Mandarin. ;) There are 3 more of his songs here.

For Mongolian I have Сэрчмаа, she's really good. :D You have to at least listen to this, Эрх хонгор сэтгэл. :ugeek:

Also, what did you use to learn it?

Yeah, I've seen it. I liked it a lot, also. But the main characters in that movie are not Mongolian or Mongolian speakers. I guess they memorized their lines phonetically or something.

Yeah, I heard that, but it's still Mongolian, and it doesn't sound too bad. :P Actually, Temujin's wife is a native speaker. ;)

This is WAY beyond my ability! :oops:
All I caught is Manju oci, so I guess you're Manchu. I didn't know there were Manchus in Taiwan...

I had an idea once for a new Manchu orthography. It would revive the old Jurchen script & use that for native Manchu nouns, verb stems, adjective stems, etc. Then, simplified Chinese characters would be used to write loanwords from Chinese. Finally, the Manchu script would be used for everything else. But, I admit, this style is similar to the way Japanese uses a mix of kanji & kana so I don't know how Manchus would feel about that. :|

I caught maybe 5 or 6. :lol: Perhaps VROOR could explain his knowledge of Manchu? We'd love to hear. ;)

Yeah, I don't really like the idea of it, too complicated. :oops:


VROOR, would you mind posting an English translation, or perhaps a gloss? I don't know nearly enough Manchu to begin to translate that. :cry:
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Sat 14 Nov 2009 3:18 am

Manju oci, emu colgoropi fulu sain uksura bicibe, ne sihaha de bakcilara jakade, muse urunakv ilinjime tucifi, musei ulandunjiha xu wen be karmaca. Geli sibei hefelingguse i dosire be okdombi, muse de gese fulehe da bimbime, gala jafandume, musei abka be weileceme aracaki.

"The Manchurians, we were once a proud people; facing the current demise, we have to make our stand, we have to defend our traditional culture. As for our Sibe bretherns, we welcome and beseech them to join our cause, we all share the same roots. Let us work together, building an identity that belongs to ourselves in this world."

The translation given is not an exact word-for-word translation but, the translation is valid to the meaning of the creed; however, I might have placed some personal cultural and/or biased feelings into the translation.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Sun 15 Nov 2009 12:35 am

Sobekhotep wrote:I disagree. I consider the Japanese particles to be suffixes to the word it modifies. So, I consider a word like <汚れやすいことは> to be 1 word and would romanize it as such: yogoreyasuikotowa. This is the reason why I write the Manchu suffixes as part of the word it modifies.


We are not supposed to mix-n-match manchu words into combos. Doing so will change both, the pronounciation and the meaning of the words sometimes. The Manchurian Script's writing rules are thus designed to prevent such a problem.

Sobekhotep wrote:I guess you're Manchu.


I am part Manchurian in blood.

Sobekhotep wrote:I didn't know there were Manchus in Taiwan...


There are Manchurians in Taiwan of whom, arrived to Taiwan in two waves: The First Wave was during the Qing Dynasty when the Manchurian Goverment annexed Taiwan into the Empire. The Second Wave was when the "Nationalist Party" reteated to Taiwan, there are some Manchurians in the old "Nationalist Party" as well as amongst the ranks of the "Blue Army"(the army of the "Nationalist Party" whose uniforms were marked with "blue sky and white sun", also as to differentiate from the "Red Army" which belonged to the "Communist Party").

Sobekhotep wrote:I had an idea once for a new Manchu orthography. It would revive the old Jurchen script & use that for native Manchu nouns, verb stems, adjective stems, etc. Then, simplified Chinese characters would be used to write loanwords from Chinese. Finally, the Manchu script would be used for everything else. But, I admit, this style is similar to the way Japanese uses a mix of kanji & kana so I don't know how Manchus would feel about that.


The Manchurian language already have a writing system, namely the Manchurian Script, we do not need any other writing systems. Besides the Manchurian language, the Manchurian Script is one of the treasures of the Manchu people.

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Manju hergen oci, xu wen inu, hvmasu inu, sultucin inu. Manju hergen oci, manju gisun i xumin gvnin inu, manju i yargiyan inu. Manju hergen oci, manju gisun i fayangga inu.
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby Sobekhotep » Sun 15 Nov 2009 1:35 am

Sean of the Dead wrote:Have you heard of Sung Sidung? He sings some songs in Manchu (and maybe Sibe, not sure :P ) and Mandarin, and my favorite song by him is this. Half of it's in Manchu, half in Mandarin. ;) There are 3 more of his songs here.

Yes, I've heard of him & heard his songs. That's the only Manchu I've heard.

Sean of the Dead wrote:For Mongolian I have Сэрчмаа, she's really good.

I've heard of her, never listened to her music, though. I'm more of a hip-hop/rap & ragga guy. :)

Sean of the Dead wrote:Also, what did you use to learn it?

Nothing, really. Just the Japanese Wikipedia article about it & a dictionary. :)
But I didn't study it for very long.

Sean of the Dead wrote:Yeah, I don't really like the idea of it, too complicated. :oops:

It's not as complex as it sounds. I think it's perfect! But my opinion doesn't matter.
Now I'm writing Manchu with the Soyombo script. :D

VROOR wrote:The Manchurian language already have a writing system, namely the Manchurian Script, we do not need any other writing systems.

Fair enough.
What about the old Jurchen script? Why did that fall out of use?
Also, can you read the Manchu script when it's sideways like this: ᡝᡵᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᠣᠴᡳ
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Re: Manju gisun

Postby VROOR » Sun 15 Nov 2009 2:58 am

Sobekhotep wrote:What about the old Jurchen script? Why did that fall out of use?


Even though the Manchu language is the linguistic offspring of the Jurchen language, there are a lot of differeces between Jurchen and Manchu. Besides the obvious syntax and vocabularical changes, the sound shifts cannot really be shown with the Jurchen writing system. After all, the Jurchen language and the Manchu language are, two totally different languages despite they are indeed related.

Lacking a valid writing system proved to be a major problem for any group of people who are to be united under one unity and command, and thus, the Manchurian Script was born into the world as a method to unify the language (both the writing and spoken). It was believed that, by this unification, all the tribes would be also united.

Sobekhotep wrote:Also, can you read the Manchu script when it's sideways like this: ᡝᡵᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᡥᡝᡵᡤᡝᠨ ᠣᠴᡳ


Are you trying to write "ere manju hergen oci"Image?
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