The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

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Is it real?

Yes
2
40%
No
3
60%
 
Total votes : 5

Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Talib » Fri 13 Nov 2009 8:00 am

Yeah, just like Chinese, Japanese and Korean!
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby dtp883 » Fri 13 Nov 2009 8:40 am

Well I know Korean is not as close as Japanese and Chinese are. :geek:
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Talib » Fri 13 Nov 2009 4:12 pm

Close in what way? Both have a ton of Chinese loanwords and until recently Korean made use of a great deal of Chinese characters, the same way Japanese does.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Sobekhotep » Sat 14 Nov 2009 1:54 am

dtp883 wrote:
Delodephius wrote:Most people think Turkish, Arabic and Iranian are the same.

So true. :(

Wait, they aren't related?! :o I thought they were like Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian.

This is sarcasm, I hope.

dtp883 wrote:Well I know Korean is not as close as Japanese and Chinese are.

Japanese and Korean are a hell of a lot more similar to each other than either is to Chinese. They both have similar grammar, while Chinese grammar is way different, borderline nonexistent, in my opinion. The phonologies of Japanese & Korean are also similar: no tones, polysyllabic morphemes (which don't exist in Chinese).
Some scholars actually classify the Japonic & Korean languages under Altaic, but this is not widely accepted. Korean classification is still ongoing, though, & it may end up in the Altaic group after all.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Talib » Sat 14 Nov 2009 2:06 am

Sobekhotep wrote:Japanese and Korean are a hell of a lot more similar to each other than either is to Chinese. They both have similar grammar, while Chinese grammar is way different, borderline nonexistent, in my opinion.
I wouldn't call it nonexistent just because it's analytic. I always thought of such languages as having simpler morphology (or in the case of Chinese, none) and more complex syntax. A language like Latin has complicated inflectional paradigms but virtually free word order.
Some scholars actually classify the Japonic & Korean languages under Altaic, but this is not widely accepted. Korean classification is still ongoing, though, & it may end up in the Altaic group after all.
I'm skeptical. The Uralic and Altaic families were once thought to be related due to similar structural features (SOV word order, agglutination, vowel harmony) and it was found those resemblances were areal, not genetic. I suspect it's the same for Japanese and Korean which have been spoken in the same area long enough for a sprachbund to develop.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Sobekhotep » Sat 14 Nov 2009 2:30 am

Talib wrote:The Uralic and Altaic families were once thought to be related due to similar structural features (SOV word order, agglutination, vowel harmony)

Wait, Uralic languages are SOV? :shock: I thought they were SVO...
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Talib » Sat 14 Nov 2009 2:55 am

My mistake -they are. SOV word order is an argument for a relation between Japanese and Altaic, though.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Sobekhotep » Sun 15 Nov 2009 1:13 am

Talib wrote:SOV word order is an argument for a relation between Japanese and Altaic, though.

A pretty weak one, in my opinion, since lots of languages are SOV like Indo-Iranian, Caucasian (all 3 I think), Dravidian, Eskimo-Aleut, & many others.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby dtp883 » Sun 15 Nov 2009 2:38 am

I was being sarcastic. I know that Arabic is Semitic, Iranian is Indo-European, and Turkish is well Turkic. I know Chinese is Sino-Tibetan and that Japanese is Japonic and an isolate. I knew Japanese was thought of possibly being Altaic. I've never really read about Korean though. I think I remeber reading about a Altaic-Uralic connection and thinking how strange that Finnish and Japanese could be related. I haven't been able to find any information on this in a long time though.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Talib » Sun 15 Nov 2009 3:48 am

dtp883 wrote:I knew Japanese was thought of possibly being Altaic. I've never really read about Korean though. I think I remeber reading about a Altaic-Uralic connection and thinking how strange that Finnish and Japanese could be related. I haven't been able to find any information on this in a long time though.
The current consensus is that the Uralic and Altaic families are not related and any similarities between them are due to geographic proximity, not genetic relation; and Japanese and Korean may be Altaic (or at least related to each other somehow) but this is extremely controversial when the unity of the Altaic family itself has been called into question.
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