The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

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Is it real?

Yes
2
40%
No
3
60%
 
Total votes : 5

The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Kloiten » Sun 08 Nov 2009 7:42 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Veles < The link on Wikipedia.

What do you think of the Book? I think it would be real.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby dtp883 » Sun 08 Nov 2009 9:12 am

Kloiten wrote:What do you think of the Book? I think it would be real.


Sorry, your last sentence bugs me; I think it should just be, "I think it is real." I don't know why I'm pointing it out, I'm just on end right now.

On Topic, I find it sketchy; Wikipedia claims most historians doubt it's authenticity. While I know little to nothing about Slavic Languages, to me, the most compelling evidence against it that they stated was the use of medieval and modern vocabulary which can't really be explained away with dialectal differences.

They also claim that a forgery of such authenticity would require greater talent than Mirolyubov had, and that there was no personal gain for him, apart from nationalistic pride, in forging the book.


While we can't know anything specific about his talent, I believe that nationalistic pride can be hugely compelling.

My two cents.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Delodephius » Sun 08 Nov 2009 12:47 pm

I've read a lot of literature about the Book of Veles. There is even a publishing house in Serbia that published many books about it including a translation. However, I do think the book is a fake. I do think it was not made by the man who found it or the man who made it public. As far as I have read it was made in the early 19th or late 18th century. As dtp883 said, the analysis of the book revealed that the language is artificial and was made by someone who had some knowledge of old Slavic languages but insufficient, but perhaps impressive for his era, before the founding of the Palaeoslavistic studies.

Another thing is the content of this book because to me it does not look like something I've encountered in literary works of the period this book is suppose to originate from. Unlike other Medieval works this book has a Romantic flair to it, something that reminds me of nationalistic interpretation of the past, because for one it fits many of the myths the nationalists have been propagating for the last two centuries and very little with what historians have found out.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Declan » Sun 08 Nov 2009 2:07 pm

Has it been carbon-dated?
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Delodephius » Sun 08 Nov 2009 3:04 pm

Well that's the thing: the planks have been lost in WWII. Only two photos and the transcriptions remained.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Talib » Sun 08 Nov 2009 7:01 pm

dtp883 wrote:While I know little to nothing about Slavic Languages, to me, the most compelling evidence against it that they stated was the use of medieval and modern vocabulary which can't really be explained away with dialectal differences.
Apparently proponents explain away these discrepancies by attributing them to dialectal differences, but why would these stylistic differences match modern usage? That's a leap for the delusional.

I think it's pretty clearly fake. A work of this magnitude would have been documented before now, somewhere. Claims that the book was lost and only recently "rediscovered" are as obvious a cover story as any.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Sobekhotep » Mon 09 Nov 2009 1:23 am

I've heard of this so-called slovanské védy (Slavic Vedas) and I also think it's clearly a fake.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Delodephius » Mon 09 Nov 2009 7:39 am

I think you heard about the 'Veda Slovena' which is not a fake. It is a modern name of a collection of epic folk songs from the Rhodope mountains, a very old and conservative songs because they mention characters and events from a very ancient lore, like Orpheus who is a central character in a few of the longest epics. Of course over the centuries they expanded and changed and because of this many stories are mixed, thus one of the central themes is Orpheus being married to a daughter of the Chinese emperor, thus a mixture of popular Ancient and Medieval lore for those who have read such works. The interesting thing is that these songs were preserved mostly by Muslim Slavs called Pomaks. Here is a link:
http://ziezi.net/veda1/
Book I. contains the longer epics, Book II. contains poems and short hymns.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Sobekhotep » Tue 10 Nov 2009 12:51 am

Delodephius wrote:I think you heard about the 'Veda Slovena'

No, slovanské védy refers to the Book of Veles (cz: Velesova kniha) because of it's religious nature & because the line above the Cyrillic-looking script makes it kind of resemble Devanāgarī.
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Re: The Book of Veles - Fake or Real?

Postby Delodephius » Tue 10 Nov 2009 1:34 am

The word 'veda' in Czech and Slovak means 'science', so there are certain linguistic connections with Indo-Aryan languages that are not shared with other IE languages. People then presumed there are also some other, more mystic connections. But there is not much special about Slavic-Indian culture than with other IE and neighbouring cultures.
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