Zi Hoi Kal

The place to discuss your conlangs and conlanging.

Zi Hoi Kal

Postby adelgado » Mon 24 Aug 2009 3:22 am

Hello, fellows conlangers!

I'm going to post here the details of a project conlang I'm working on with some friends of mine. It has some random requirements that guide it's development, which I'll explain throughout the post.


Orthography and Sounds:

1.Consonants:

One of the requirements is that it can be spoken without raising the tongue, so consonants like [l] or [ʃ] cannot be a part of it. Also, it should sound 'foreign' to the average European-language speaker.

Code: Select all
<m> [m]
<p> [p] <b> [b] <k> [k] <g> [g] <q> [q]
<f> [f] <v> [v] <s> [s] <z> [z]
<x> [ɬ] <l> [ɮ] <c> [ç] <j> [ʝ]
<r> [ʁ] <h> [ħ]
<'> [ʔ]


2. Vowels:

Also, it has to be shoutable, so in order to increase clarity it has few core vowels with an ample realization:

Code: Select all
<a> [a]
<e> [e~ɛ]
<i> [i~ɪ]
<o> [o~ɔ]
<u> [u]


Right now I have trouble with [ɬ] and [ɮ], because I don't think that <x> and <l> are good ways to write these sounds.
adelgado
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat 18 Apr 2009 11:16 pm

Re: Zi Hoi Kal

Postby linguoboy » Mon 24 Aug 2009 3:56 am

adelgado wrote:One of the requirements is that it can be spoken without raising the tongue, so consonants like [l] or [ʃ] cannot be a part of it. Also, it should sound 'foreign' to the average European-language speaker.

If that's the case, then how can [s] and [z] be part of it, not to mention [ç] and [ʝ]? [ç] is palatal, [ʃ] is pre-palatal; the difference between these two sounds is so minor that that substitution of one for the other is not uncommon in languages of the world.
english*deutsch*nederlands*català*castellano*gaelainn*cymraeg*français*svenska*韓國말*漢語
linguoboy
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sun 19 Apr 2009 9:02 am

Re: Zi Hoi Kal

Postby dtp883 » Mon 24 Aug 2009 4:34 am

adelgado wrote:One of the requirements is that it can be spoken without raising the tongue, so consonants like [l] or [ʃ] cannot be a part of it. Also, it should sound 'foreign' to the average European-language speaker.


Noob Question: I have never heard /ɮ/ or /ɬ/ pronounced but I always thought they were, well at least /ɬ/ as sort of combination of /l/ and /ʃ/ or something similar. Am I wrong? Also how can you have /k/ and /g/ when the back tongue is raised to the hard palate?

Interesting idea though. I really like it, it sounds like it would sound foreign to most people.
Native: English (NW American)
Advanced: Spanish
Intermediate: French
Beginning: Arabic (MSA/Egyptian)
Some day: German
User avatar
dtp883
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat 18 Apr 2009 10:51 pm
Location: San Francisco Area

Re: Zi Hoi Kal

Postby Talib » Mon 24 Aug 2009 4:44 am

dtp883 wrote:Noob Question: I have never heard /ɮ/ or /ɬ/ pronounced but I always thought they were, well at least /ɬ/ as sort of combination of /l/ and /ʃ/ or something similar.
It's sometimes impressionistically described that way, but really it's more like a fricative /l/ or lateral /s/.
العربية * 中文 * English * Français * Русский * Português * Español * हिन्दी/اردو * Deutsch * 日本語
Talib
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun 19 Apr 2009 8:22 am
Location: Canada

Re: Zi Hoi Kal

Postby dtp883 » Mon 24 Aug 2009 4:47 am

So the tongue is raised though?
Native: English (NW American)
Advanced: Spanish
Intermediate: French
Beginning: Arabic (MSA/Egyptian)
Some day: German
User avatar
dtp883
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat 18 Apr 2009 10:51 pm
Location: San Francisco Area

Re: Zi Hoi Kal

Postby Talib » Mon 24 Aug 2009 5:41 am

dtp883 wrote:So the tongue is raised though?
Of course. It's an alveolar consonant.
العربية * 中文 * English * Français * Русский * Português * Español * हिन्दी/اردو * Deutsch * 日本語
Talib
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun 19 Apr 2009 8:22 am
Location: Canada

Re: Zi Hoi Kal

Postby adelgado » Mon 24 Aug 2009 7:41 pm

linguoboy wrote:
adelgado wrote:One of the requirements is that it can be spoken without raising the tongue, so consonants like [l] or [ʃ] cannot be a part of it. Also, it should sound 'foreign' to the average European-language speaker.

If that's the case, then how can [s] and [z] be part of it, not to mention [ç] and [ʝ]? [ç] is palatal, [ʃ] is pre-palatal; the difference between these two sounds is so minor that that substitution of one for the other is not uncommon in languages of the world.


Hmm... I mean only the apical part of the tongue cannot leave the lower gun ridge. Let's put it this way, I think it'll explain: If you're holding a chewing gum under your tongue and you're handwalking, you should be able to speak it without letting the gum fall.

So, [s] or [ç] do not require me to raise the tip of my tongue in a way that "would let the gum fall", but [ʃ], [l] or [t̪] (the standard /t/ in B-Portuguese) would "let the gum fall".

dtp883 wrote:
adelgado wrote:One of the requirements is that it can be spoken without raising the tongue, so consonants like [l] or [ʃ] cannot be a part of it. Also, it should sound 'foreign' to the average European-language speaker.


Noob Question: I have never heard /ɮ/ or /ɬ/ pronounced but I always thought they were, well at least /ɬ/ as sort of combination of /l/ and /ʃ/ or something similar. Am I wrong? Also how can you have /k/ and /g/ when the back tongue is raised to the hard palate?

Interesting idea though. I really like it, it sounds like it would sound foreign to most people.


You can hear their sound at [1] and [2]. To pronounce, you put your tongue in the position to perform [ʎ] but instead perform a fricative such as [s].



Thanks y'all for the reply! :)



[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_ ... _fricative
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_alv ... _fricative
Last edited by adelgado on Mon 24 Aug 2009 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
adelgado
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat 18 Apr 2009 11:16 pm

Re: Zi Hoi Kal

Postby adelgado » Mon 24 Aug 2009 7:51 pm

By the way, "Zi Hoi Kal" means "The Beautiful Speech".

Sometimes, we import nouns from Dutch, applying the needed mutations, so /t/ becomes /k/. "Kal" comes from "taal".
adelgado
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat 18 Apr 2009 11:16 pm

Bits of Grammar

Postby adelgado » Fri 28 Aug 2009 3:19 am

So, we've got personal pronouns! :-)

Code: Select all
I               me
you (sing.)     ce
he              se
she             sei
we              mev
you (pl.)       cev
they (masc.)    sev
they (fem.)     seiv
they (all)      seava



By the way, the following sounds are now written as thus:

[ɬ] <c> word-initially, <tl> elsewhere
[ɮ] <dl>
[ʁ] <ǵ> word-finally, <r> elsewhere
[ħ] <h>
adelgado
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat 18 Apr 2009 11:16 pm


Return to Conlangery

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests