Sejuvli

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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Sushika » Sun 26 Jul 2009 12:20 pm

@Kloiten: you've done very well! It's all correct.

raek wrote:I've found a few inconsistencies in the above posts...


Thanks for your interesting questions. I'll try to answer you exhaustively.

About the pronunciation of <z>, it was /z/ in the first two Sejuvli forms, then I changed it into /dz/ in the current form just because I find it easier to pronounce. Anyways, that's only my own opinion: I'm actually thinking about making it an allophone for both /dz/ and /z/. So feel free to pronounce it as you prefer, until I decide for good.

About the lack of /v/, you're very ceųnom! (that literally means "who-looks", and describes a person who always pays attention to everything.) That's my fault, it's just a typo.

Same for jun lida so lacev. The correct translation is "we own this house". "That house" would obviously be to lacev.

About se ga, no, ilu must not be paired with it. Ga totally substitutes the pronoun, it doesn't just go with it. So, you say mi pula ga sųo, "I stand up", and absolutely not mi pula mi ga sųo, which would be very very wrong! :)

About šolan, well, I have to say that Sejuvli verbs tend to be preferably transitive. In this case, though, šolan and matan have different constructions: the former is transitive, the latter is not. Therefore you say mi šola ve, but mi mata na ve.
"I'm speaking Sejuvli to you" could be literally translated as mi šola ve Sejuvli, but a native speaker would rather say mi šola ve sa Sejuvli ("I speak to you using Sejuvli") or mi šola ve cųo Sejuvli ("I speak to you in a Sejuvli manner", cfr. Esperanto mi parolas angle), in order to be more straightforward.

About the words:

feta = from the verb fetan, which is used in phrases such as "how are you?", "I'm fine".
pocųo = how?
ben = modal particle which expresses politeness.
fųe = away.
al = auxiliary particle, used with the past simple and perfect, to form the conditional mood.
gom = preposition which introduces a quantity (e.g. tei gom poga = tea in-the-quantity-of [a] cup = a cup of tea)
priša = very very, really very (strong superlative)
tei = tea
poga = cup
uğa = 1, one
pi = explicative preposition (e.g. šiva pi Roma = the city of Rome; matur pi angavli = an English teacher) [more later... ;)]
ljoğe = someone, some people

And in the next post... past perfect and future!
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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Kloiten » Mon 27 Jul 2009 5:07 pm

Sushika wrote:About se ga, no, ilu must not be paired with it. Ga totally substitutes the pronoun, it doesn't just go with it. So, you say mi pula ga sųo, "I stand up", and absolutely not mi pula mi ga sųo, which would be very very wrong! :)


So what does ga mean? Does it replace the pronoun to avoid repition?
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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Sushika » Mon 27 Jul 2009 10:28 pm

Kloiten wrote:So what does ga mean? Does it replace the pronoun to avoid repition?


Ga literally means "-self", but unlike English "-self" -which always goes with a possessive adjective: "myself", "yourself"...- ga feels comfortable alone. It totally replaces the pronoun, as you said, to avoid repetition.

Note that ga can also be used as a subject of subordinate clauses, where the main and the subordinate share the same subject. E.g.:
he said, that he would come = ilu šolen, le ga lajen šaų* (cfr. Latin ille dixit se venturum esse).

* = the modal particle šaų expresses the future-in-the-past, and is constructed with the past simple.
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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Kloiten » Sun 02 Aug 2009 5:18 pm

Wow, Omniglot was dying on me for the past three or four days so I couldn't respond to your post. :? Anyway:

Sushika wrote:
Ga literally means "-self", but unlike English "-self" -which always goes with a possessive adjective: "myself", "yourself"...- ga feels comfortable alone. It totally replaces the pronoun, as you said, to avoid repetition.



That seems useful; the two languages I speak fluently don't feature this. I should consider this feature into my language.

Sushika wrote:
Note that ga can also be used as a subject of subordinate clauses, where the main and the subordinate share the same subject. E.g.:
he said, that he would come = ilu šolen, le ga lajen šaų* (cfr. Latin ille dixit se venturum esse).



Does le mean anything else other than being used for relative clauses? For example, Russian "chto" means "what" but can also serve as a introduction to relative clauses. (e.g. Máma skazála, chto oná poshlá v magazín. or "Mother said that she would go to the store.")

Sushika wrote: The modal particle šaų expresses the future-in-the-past, and is constructed with the past simple.


Are you going to cover that in a separate post soon? I'm looking forward to doing some exercises. :lol:

P.S.: I noticed that your [dZ] sound is a g with a breve, not a caron while [S] and [tS] use carons. What is the cause of this irregularity?

That's a minor detail I was curious about, but what I also want to ask is how you type the special characters of your alphabet. To my knowledge, g with a breve and the rest of your characters are on two separate keyboards (the Turkish and Latvian ones, respectively). I used to switch between keyboards when I needed to type characters exclusive to one keyboard, but that drove me nuts and I was forced to adopt the simple International keyboard with no diacritics with consonants. :( Anyway, I would like to know how you manage to type ğ and ų (and the others). Do you use one keyboard?

Thanks. Hope Sejuvli flourishes. ;)
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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Sushika » Tue 04 Aug 2009 2:40 pm

Kloiten wrote:Does le mean anything else other than being used for relative clauses? For example, Russian "chto" means "what" but can also serve as a introduction to relative clauses. (e.g. Máma skazála, chto oná poshlá v magazín. or "Mother said that she would go to the store.")


No, it only means "that" to introduce declarative, subjective or objective clauses (Sejuvli tends to be a language of one word for one meaning and viceversa, although there are some exceptions). But notice that you can often use "preposition" + le to form a conjunction. E.g.:

šu (because of) + le (that) = šule (because)
tan (during, for) + le (that) = tanle (while)
cen (in [time]) + le (that) = cenle (when)

Kloiten wrote:Are you going to cover that in a separate post soon? I'm looking forward to doing some exercises. :lol:


Of course! :D

Kloiten wrote:P.S.: I noticed that your [dZ] sound is a g with a breve, not a caron while [S] and [tS] use carons. What is the cause of this irregularity?

That's a minor detail I was curious about, but what I also want to ask is how you type the special characters of your alphabet. To my knowledge, g with a breve and the rest of your characters are on two separate keyboards (the Turkish and Latvian ones, respectively). I used to switch between keyboards when I needed to type characters exclusive to one keyboard, but that drove me nuts and I was forced to adopt the simple International keyboard with no diacritics with consonants. :( Anyway, I would like to know how you manage to type ğ and ų (and the others). Do you use one keyboard?


About the difference between the breve and the caron, well, the explanation is simple: I confused the caron and the breve when I started writing Sejuvli on Microsoft Word :D I know it should be a G with a caron, but when I realized the mistake I decided to keep it, because the difference is really little.

About how I type, well, when writing on MS Word I use the automatic correction. When I write [CTRL] + [c] + ['], for example, it automatically turns into [č]. When posting on Omniglot and other forums, I write the special characters on MS Word and copy-paste them. And when writing down fast notes on my iPhone, I use the alternative spelling (e.g.: č -> ch).

Kloiten wrote:Thanks. Hope Sejuvli flourishes. ;)


Thank you!
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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Sushika » Fri 07 Aug 2009 12:08 pm

Before I keep going on with the grammar, I'd like to post a sample. It's the Sejuvli translation of this Italian article found on Wikinews. Read it so you can understand how the language actually sounds.

Antev Africa je Eğipto ei uğa lai africam dopreğar go digeci šu brebe A/H1N1

uğade 3 pi Padunmen 2009

Jon Eğipto, Antev Africa ei guųa dųil dopreğa, la mepro pi Africa, sųogųezar digec šu coborec se brebe A/H1N1, prim jesat pi “roncica brebe”. Digesul ei cojesur sejar 22, digec se poğe fijen cen pades 28 pi Nugomen.

Go saton mjen zajo ačir, Antev Africa ei šai frapat dopreğa la rin-Saharica Africa, gųile frapec sųo majsu ei hapri mega, cųo hojogesec go Eųropam je Americam dopreğar. Man
European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, ųo sųogųezen uğa lai ači cen 18 pi Čisamen.

Antevafricam Cartal pi Fetal, sa našolec, posen jesan le diges portu digen guųa anter jon feųvarec la rusev se Reği pi Rinjevica Pinti, dje le caų fajnen borom su antoc. Cartur, ğin našolan hagepten šu «halise» digec, šolen le ga ei «gepi šule ačir sųogųezat na Antev Africa ei hastaği, šai šolan, je miğen vala, le upi eų jasuma socųo, gųi halise sųogųezat digec».
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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Kloiten » Fri 07 Aug 2009 5:47 pm

Sushika wrote: Read it so you can understand how the language actually sounds.

You forgot to mention where to put stress. I just put the stress on the penultimate syllable, but that doesn't sound right to me. But hey, it's a conlang.
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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Sushika » Fri 07 Aug 2009 7:33 pm

From the first post of this topic...

Sushika wrote:The word stress is always on the last-but-one syllable, except for monosyllabic words. E.g.:
mejtaųdec = buying and selling
tan = during, for


So you're right, it's always the penultimate. ;)
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Re: Sejuvli

Postby Kloiten » Fri 07 Aug 2009 8:26 pm

Oh, my bad. I forgot to pay attention while reading... ;)
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