Melanian (Reborn!)

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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby linguoboy » Sat 30 May 2009 12:18 am

dtp883 wrote:Oh, sorry. I meant European languages. Since her conlangs grammar is based off of Finnish, I was just wondering about the pronouns.

But he does say that Melanian is "[i]nfluenced from a wide variety of languages (Southeast Asian, East Asian, Germanic, and Romance)". (Hmm, I wonder if he realises that Finnish doesn't fit into any of those categories...)

My biggest problem with the pronoun system is the possessive forms. It makes no sense to me to have such granularity in subject/object pronouns and then have only a basic European system for the possessives. You'd expect a way of forming a possessive from any object pronoun, even if this isn't the most commonly-used form.
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby dtp883 » Sat 30 May 2009 3:02 am

I thought so also.

Just a quick question for linguoboy. Since I know very little about non-European pronoun systems, is there a difference between "We (excluding yourself)" and "You (Plural)" in other pronoun systems?
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby linguoboy » Sat 30 May 2009 3:29 am

dtp883 wrote:Just a quick question for linguoboy. Since I know very little about non-European pronoun systems, is there a difference between "We (excluding yourself)" and "You (Plural)" in other pronoun systems?

It's fairly common crosslinguistically. The Wikipedia article on clusivity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_we) gives plenty of examples, some culled from European languages (e.g. French nousautres).
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby Neqitan » Sat 30 May 2009 4:34 am

Talking about personal pronouns, this page might prove of your interest.
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby dtp883 » Sat 30 May 2009 4:36 am

I apologize to both of you. My brain failed me. I was thinking by We(excluding you) you meant We excluding singular first person. I was not thinking we excluding second person singular. :oops:
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby StorSteg » Sun 26 Jul 2009 10:04 am

Okay, I revised everything I posted before. Hopefully this is better. Sorry for the long hiatus, I needed a break from conlangery for a while.

So, Melanian's influenced by a variety of languages (Southest Asian, East Asian, Germanic, Finnic-Ugric, and Romance). Its sentence structure is SVO with a V2 word order.


The Alphabet

Aa - /a/
Ãã - /ã/
Ąą - /ɔ̃/
Ää - /æ/
Bb - /b/
Бб - /p/
Cc - /ɕ/
Ćć - /ʨʰ/
Čč - /ʨ/
Dd - /d/
Đđ - /dz/
Ee - /ɛ/
Ęę - /ɯ/
Ff - /f/
Gg - /g/
Hh - /x/
Ii - /i/
Jj - /j/
Kk - /kʰ/
Ǩǩ - /k/
Ll - /l/
Łł - /w/
Mm - /m/
Nn - /n/
Oo - /o/
Õõ - /õ/
Öö - /ø/
Pp - /pʰ/
Rr - /r/
Ŗŗ - /ʁ/
Ss - /s/
Tt - /tʰ/
Ŧŧ - /t/
Uu - /u/
Vv - /v/
Xx - /ks/
Yy - /y/
Zz - /z/
Źź - /ʦ/


Letter Combinations

- Lj, Gj, and Đj - /j/
- Ch, Cj, Ćj, and Čj - /ɕ/
- Hj and Xj - /xj/
- Ji - /i/


Rules of Sound

Vowels
- Diphthongs: any two vowel combination you can think of
- Vowel combinations of more than two are rare

Consonants
- Consonant combinations of more than two do not exist, except in loan words. C, Ć, Č, Đ, H, X, and Ź aren't allowed in two-consonant combinations
- Consonants with similar sounds almost never go together

Words
- Words with two to three syllables are almost always stressed on the first syllable
- Toning is very flexible, so the way a word is toned doesn't change its meaning
- Double lettering is a minor feature in the Melanian language, like Finnish. That means “kina”, “kiina”, “kinna”, “kinaa”, “kiinaa”, “kiinna”, “kinnaa” and “kiinnaa” all have different meanings. However, B, C, Ć, Č, D, Đ, G, H, J, Ŗ, V, X, Z and Ź aren't allowed to appear as geminates


Pronouns

Nominative
I – Jak
I (if you’re a boy, optional) – Pom
I (if you’re a girl, optional) – Ćan
I (if you’re older than the listener) – Pang
I (if you’re younger than the listener) – On
You – Dau
You (if the listener is a boy, optional) – Boku
You (if the listener is a girl, optional) – Tachi
You (if the listener is older) – Nii
You (if the listener is younger) - Nuu
He – Kat
She – Ket
He/She (if unsure of gender) – Hän
It - De
We (including you) – Nos
We (excluding you) – Vi
You (pl) – Vos
He (pl) – Kata
She (pl) – Keta
They – Dam

Accusative
Jak – Mek
Pom – Pom
Ćan – Ćan
Pang – Pang
On – On
Dau – Dek
Boku - Boku
Tachi - Tachi
Nii - Nii
Nuu - Nuu
Kat – Hom
Ket – Fem
Hän – Sek
De – Mit
Nos – Os
Vi – Nos
Vos – Era
Kata/Keta/Dam - Dans

Possessive
My/mine - Min
Your/yours - Din
His - Kats
Her(s) - Kets
His/Hers - Häns
Its - Des
Ours (including yours) – Nosan
Ours (excluding you) – Visan
Your (plural) – Vosan
Theirs – Daman


Verb Conjugation
Infinitive - there are four kinds of verbs: verbs that end in two vowels [A verbs] with a being the final a (aa, ea, ia, oa, ua, etc.), verbs that end in just (a) [B verbs], verbs that end in no vowels [C verbs], and irregular verbs [D verbs]

Present Tense - A verbs: remove (a), B and C verbs: do nothing. D verbs are just... irregular. Then add...

Pronoun | Ending
Jak, Pom, Ćan, Pang, On | -n
Dau, Poi, Kui, Nii, Nuu | -t
Kat, Ket, Hän, Dät | -u
Nos, Vi | -mmi
Vos | -tti
Kata, Keta, Dam | -kki

Past Tense - take present tense and add (-de) for singular first and third person, (-te) for singular second person, and (-e) for plural people.

Future Tense - take present tense and add (-sa).

Conditional Tense - take present tense and add (-sin).

Imperative - A and B verbs: remove the (a) in the infinitive form. C and D verbs' imperative forms are the same as the infinitive.

Since verbs have endings that indicate who the speaker is talking about, the pronouns can be omitted. And, if you and whoever you're engaged in converation with know who/what you're talking about, you can even omit third person pronouns.

___

Hopefully this is better than what I had before?
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby StorSteg » Sun 26 Jul 2009 10:14 am

linguoboy wrote:Is there a historical reason for this or is it completely arbitrary?


It's arbitrary. But, I have a question for you. If you ask me why I choose Ł for /w/ when W is free, then why does Polish choose W for /v/ when V is free?
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby dtp883 » Sun 26 Jul 2009 10:59 am

From my understanding the reason <Ł> is used for /w/ is because of the way Polish phonology evolved. Same with <w> which represents /v/ in many languages. Though I could be wrong and <w> could've always been used for /v/. And I don't think the Polish alphabet has a <v>.
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby StorSteg » Mon 27 Jul 2009 7:18 pm

Polish doesn't have a <v>, but it's used in foreign names and loan words. I hope I'm still able to use <Ł> for /w/.


Edit: Ahhh! I made a mistake on the accusative form of Vi (exclusive we). It's supposed to be Nus, not Nos.
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Re: Melanian (Reborn!)

Postby linguoboy » Mon 27 Jul 2009 8:20 pm

StorSteg wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Is there a historical reason for this or is it completely arbitrary?

It's arbitrary. But, I have a question for you. If you ask me why I choose Ł for /w/ when W is free, then why does Polish choose W for /v/ when V is free?

At the time the Latin alphabet was adapted for Polish, v wasn't "free"; it simply a variant form of u (which, of course, Polish was already using to represent /u/). These letters didn't become distinct until about 1500 CE, by which time the Poles had been writing their language for hundreds of years.
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