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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Talib » Sat 18 Jul 2009 8:19 am

Sobekhotep wrote:Sobekhotep is Egyptian & it means "Sobek is satisfied". Also the name of a number of pharaohs.
Well, in the "Egyptologist" pronunciation, but do you know the original transcription? I can't seem to find it.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Sobekhotep » Sun 19 Jul 2009 6:23 am

Sushika wrote:
Sobekhotep wrote:Sobekhotep is Egyptian & it means "Sobek is satisfied". Also the name of a number of pharaohs.


Oh, thanks for the explanation. So are you interested in Ancient Egypt?

Yeah, who isn't? :D

Talib wrote:
Sobekhotep wrote:Sobekhotep is Egyptian & it means "Sobek is satisfied." Also the name of a number of pharaohs.

Well, in the "Egyptologist" pronunciation, but do you know the original transcription?

The "Egyptologist" transcription is the standard way for transcribing Egyptian names, so that they can at least talk about the stuff they're dealing with.
The original transcription is sbkḥtp. No vowels, of course. By Middle Egyptian those consonants probably would have been pronounced something like [sbkʰħtʰpʰ].
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby linguoboy » Sun 19 Jul 2009 8:33 am

Sobekhotep wrote:The original transcription is sbkḥtp. No vowels, of course. By Middle Egyptian those consonants probably would have been pronounced something like [sbkʰħtʰpʰ].

According to Loprieno, the Ancient Egyptian reading for the active participle of ḥtp would've been /'ḥa:tip/, becoming ['ħo:təp] by the Middle Egyptian period. (Based on Coptic data, he doesn't consider Middle Egyptian voiceless stops to be aspirated in posttonic position.) The Greek transcription Σοῦχος suggests a Late Egyptian ?['so(:)βək(ʰ)] which in turn would derive from Ancient Egyptian /'sa(:)bVk/. [The /V/ in this transcription represents the fact that the value of the unstressed vowel is not recoverable in this instance.]

So, actually, "Sobekhotep" ends up being a pretty reasonable transcription of the Middle Egyptian pronunciation.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Sobekhotep » Mon 20 Jul 2009 12:34 am

linguoboy wrote:According to Loprieno, the Ancient Egyptian reading for the active participle of ḥtp would've been /'ḥa:tip/, becoming ['ħo:təp] by the Middle Egyptian period. (Based on Coptic data, he doesn't consider Middle Egyptian voiceless stops to be aspirated in posttonic position.) The Greek transcription Σοῦχος suggests a Late Egyptian ?['so(:)βək(ʰ)] which in turn would derive from Ancient Egyptian /'sa(:)bVk/. [The /V/ in this transcription represents the fact that the value of the unstressed vowel is not recoverable in this instance.]

The stress goes on the first syllable? I always imagined it would be on the last.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Talib » Mon 20 Jul 2009 4:48 am

Sobekhotep wrote:The stress goes on the first syllable? I always imagined it would be on the last.
Do we know what the stress rules were for Egyptian?

While I'm here, I have to ask what the Amharic in your signature says. I doubt I can find a decent online translator for that language.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby linguoboy » Mon 20 Jul 2009 5:45 am

Talib wrote:Do we know what the stress rules were for Egyptian?

As well as we know what the consonants were. In Coptic, we see some pretty dramatic alternations in inflected forms (e.g. '/nutə/ "god", pl. /'ntajr/ or /'nteʔrə/). It only makes sense to ascribe these in part to variations in stress dating back to the Middle Egyptian or earlier.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Neqitan » Mon 20 Jul 2009 5:47 am

Talib wrote:While I'm here, I have to ask what the Amharic in your signature says. I doubt I can find a decent online translator for that language.

Then copy-paste it to Google. :)

Wikipedia, about Aksumite currency, wrote:Mottoes

Aksumite coins used a number of mottoes throughout the period in which they were minted, beginning in the early 4th century. Around this time, numerous anonymous bronze coins with simply Βασιλεύς (Basileus, "King") on the obverse were minted by either King Ezana or one of his successors. The coins bore the first example of an Aksumite motto on the reverse, "May this please the people" (Greek TOYTOAPECHTHXWPA). It was later written in unvocalized Ge'ez as "ለሐዘበ ፡ ዘየደአ" LʾḤZB ZYDʾ and under King Kaleb also "ለሀገረ ፡ ዘየደአ" LHGR ZYDʾ, "may this please the city [country]." Similar mottoes were used by other kings. Coins of the early 7th century Emperor Armah had inscribed on the back "ፈሰሐ ፡ ለየከነ ፡ ለአዘሐበ" FŚḤ LYKN LʾḤZB (vocalization: ፍሥሓ ፡ ለይኲን ፡ ለአሕዛብ ፡ fiśśiḥā la-yikʷin la-'aḥzāb, "Gladness let there be to the peoples").[16]
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Talib » Mon 20 Jul 2009 8:32 am

linguoboy wrote:
Talib wrote:Do we know what the stress rules were for Egyptian?

As well as we know what the consonants were. In Coptic, we see some pretty dramatic alternations in inflected forms (e.g. '/nutə/ "god", pl. /'ntajr/ or /'nteʔrə/). It only makes sense to ascribe these in part to variations in stress dating back to the Middle Egyptian or earlier.
But these are all stressed on the first syllable. Do you mean the stress shifted?
Then copy-paste it to Google.
So it's Ge'ez. Even more unlikely to be a translator for that.

I wonder if our friend ElfoEscuro is into Afro-Asiatics now.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby linguoboy » Mon 20 Jul 2009 1:34 pm

Talib wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Talib wrote:Do we know what the stress rules were for Egyptian?

As well as we know what the consonants were. In Coptic, we see some pretty dramatic alternations in inflected forms (e.g. '/nutə/ "god", pl. /'ntajr/ or /'nteʔrə/). It only makes sense to ascribe these in part to variations in stress dating back to the Middle Egyptian or earlier.
But these are all stressed on the first syllable. Do you mean the stress shifted?

That's exactly what I mean. Look at the forms: Why do you think they're /'nVtV/ in one case and /'ntVʔrV/? The simplest hypothesis which explains this is a reconstructed stem *'nVtVr plus a shift of stress when a plural ending is added. On the basis of both internal and external reconstruction, the actual forms proposed by Loprieno are *na:car, pl. *na'cur(a)w. Another parallel case of stress-shift is the feminine form, *na'ca:rat > Coptic /'nto:rə/.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Sobekhotep » Tue 21 Jul 2009 12:26 am

Neqitan wrote:Greek TOYTOAPECHTHXWPA

What kind of Greek is that? Is it supposed to be <ΤΟΥΤΟΑΠΕΧΘΞΩΠΑ>? :?

Talib wrote:I wonder if our friend ElfoEscuro is into Afro-Asiatics now.

Not really. Maybe if I could pronounce those damn ejectives... :P
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