Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby Neqitan » Tue 14 Jul 2009 12:38 am

Sobekhotep wrote:
Neqitan wrote:Then just don't use the the Pinyin IME provided by Microsoft, it only supports jian characters. :)

I've been told that Google's Chinese IME is pretty good and widely used:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/04/1 ... om-google/
http://www.liewcf.com/blog/archives/200 ... ut-method/
(For traditional characters press Ctrl + Shift + T, or go to Tools/Properties and select the option for traditional characters.)

Since when does Google make IMEs? Do they have any for other languages?

I was also surprised when a guy from Unilang told me about it. I have no idea if they have IMEs for other languages, I'm only into Mando and MSA, you know that. ^^ The stuff for Arabic is very interesting too.
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby Sobekhotep » Tue 14 Jul 2009 1:39 am

Neqitan wrote:
Sobekhotep wrote:
Neqitan wrote:Then just don't use the the Pinyin IME provided by Microsoft, it only supports jian characters. :)

I've been told that Google's Chinese IME is pretty good and widely used:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/04/1 ... om-google/
http://www.liewcf.com/blog/archives/200 ... ut-method/
(For traditional characters press Ctrl + Shift + T, or go to Tools/Properties and select the option for traditional characters.)

Since when does Google make IMEs? Do they have any for other languages?

I was also surprised when a guy from Unilang told me about it. I have no idea if they have IMEs for other languages

I searched Google and it looks like it's just the one for Mandarin.
I use an IME called "New Phonetic." It's based on tongyong pinyin instead of hanyu pinyin.
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby Neqitan » Tue 14 Jul 2009 2:05 am

Did you check my link? They have some online services for other languages too.

The other day I found out that Taiwan made Tongyong Pinyin obsolete in September 2008, favoring Hanyu Pinyin. :D

Anyways, how come you learned that? I learned it because in El Salvador I had a book for beginners published in Taiwan and it used Tongyong along with Hanyu, so I sort of picked it as I went through it.
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby Sushika » Thu 16 Jul 2009 8:48 pm

Sobekhotep wrote:
imbecilica wrote:Chữ Hán (字)

imbecilica wrote:Hán Văn (文).

imbecilica wrote:Chữ Quốc Ngữ (国语字)

Please, no more communist simplified! :mrgreen:


國語


Aww. :( even though I'm strongly anti-communist, I love simplified characters. They're so.. easy! Traditional ones look messy, imho.
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby Sobekhotep » Sat 18 Jul 2009 2:07 am

Neqitan wrote:The other day I found out that Taiwan made Tongyong Pinyin obsolete in September 2008, favoring Hanyu Pinyin. :D

Yeah. I prefer Tongyong but it's good to have a single standard.

Neqitan wrote:Anyways, how come you learned that?

My IME for Taiwan traditional Chinese uses Tongyong so I had to learn it.

Sushika wrote:I love simplified characters. They're so.. easy! Traditional ones look messy, imho.

To each his own! :)
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby Talib » Sat 18 Jul 2009 8:37 am

Neqitan wrote:I was also surprised when a guy from Unilang told me about it. I have no idea if they have IMEs for other languages, I'm only into Mando and MSA, you know that. ^^ The stuff for Arabic is very interesting too.
I'm not surprised, because they offer translators which aren't terrible (I use them mostly as online dictionaries though).

I have used Yamli before and it's pretty handy when you're on an unfamiliar computer or can't change the keyboard. I like how it supports a variety of input methods.
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby imbecilica » Sat 10 Oct 2009 10:23 am

Lesson 3 - Family

Family is one of the most important things to the average Vietnamese. Typically a household may have up to 3 generations of members within the one house. Culturally speaking, Vietnamese is closer to East Asia than South East Asia most notably due to the long history of contact with China - infact they were the first (apart from China obviously) to adopt Chinese characters out of the CJKV group. They share many common beliefs and observe the Lunar calendar (with China) and the most important celebration of the year is Tết - the Lunar New Year (a Vietnamisation of Tiết/節 which can mean 'festival').

First year learners are generally not expected to learn the following but it's crucial for one to eventually memorise them. The following is a complete list of modern pronouns and family members + the usage of each title.

Unlike for example English, Vietnamese does not have a specific word for the title 'I/me or you'. Instead it is replaced by a 'title' which is a term to describe one's relation to those one is speaking to.

I/me
Tôi - generic
Tui - generic
Ta - generic
Tao - superior
In all other cases, one replaces 'I/me' with one's own title in relation to the person/s one is speaking to. The same applies for 'you, he, she, they...'.

You
Bạn - generic (only to people of a similar age), also means friend
Mày - superior, very rude otherwise
Ngươi - archaic (but still used sometimes)
Các + title - plurality
Tụi bây - plural + equal/superior

He
Hắn - generic
Nó - superior

She
Nó - superior
Strangely, there is no generic term for 'she'. Instead, one opts to use a title.

One
Mình - generic, also used to show inclusiveness.
Ta - generic
Người ta - literally 'people'
Một người - literally 'one person'
Một ai (đó) - literally 'one somebody (there)'

It
Nó - generic

We
Ta - also means 'I/oneself'
Chúng tôi - generic
Chúng ta - generic
Chúng mình - inclusive
Tụi tôi - exclusive
Tụi ta - exclusive
Tụi mình - very exclusive

They
Họ - generic, also means 'surname/clan
Tụi nó - equal/superior

Here are the members of one's family and extended family.

Con - child
Cháu - grandchild
Cha - father (alternatives include ba, bố, tía)
Mẹ - mother (alternatives include má)
Anh - older brother, male of similar age, OTHER* see below
Chị - older sister, female of similar age, OTHER* see below
Em - younger sibling, to be specific: em + trai/gái (boy/girl), OTHER* see below
Chồng - husband
Vợ - wife
Ông - old man[/b]
- old lady
Ông cố/cốc - great grandfather
Bà cố/cốc - great grandmother

Ngoại - mother's side, literally 'outside'
Ông ngoại - mother's father
Bà ngoại - mother's mother
- mother's older sister~
- mother's younger sister
Cậu - mother's brother
Dượng - mother's sister's husband
Mợ - mother's brother's wife

Nội - father's side, literally 'inside'
Ông nội - father's father
Bà nội - father's mother
Bác - father's older brother & his wife
Chú - father's younger brother
- father's sister~
Thím - father's brother's wife

* Traditionally, it doesn't really matter how much the age difference between you and your first cousin is, if your first cousin's father or mother (the one who is brother or sister of either of your parents) is older than your respective parent then you must refer to that cousin as your superior. The opposite happens if your parent is older than theirs in which case you can address them as inferior.

eg. Your mother's sister is younger than your mother and has a child who is 20 years old. You, on the other hand, are only 15. In any case, he or she will be expected to refer to you as 'older brother or sister'. Quite bizarre I know!

~ Cô means both your mother's older sister and your father's sisters.

Notice how on your mother's side, her sisters are differentiated as either cô or dì but her brothers, regardless of age are all called cậu. Similarly, on your father's side, his brothers are differentiated as either bác or chú but his sisters are all called cô. This concept seems quite bizarre to many.
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby imbecilica » Thu 22 Oct 2009 8:41 am

I feel like explaining the differences in the pronunciations of Northern and Southern Vietnamese. I myself am a southerner but am able to understand and of course mimic the dialect of the north (at least I feel I can).

The dialect for most of the teaching resources in and outside of Vietnam are done so in the northern dialect, which is considered the standard dialect as it is spoken by the inhabitants of the regions considered to be the birthplace of Vietnamese civilisation. In fact, the ethnic Vietnamese had been living in the northern parts of the modern day country for thousands of years and it wasn't until the 12th century onwards that a process of territorial expansion known as Nam Tiến (Southward March). The south has just as many speakers (roughly 42 million each) and because of its growing importance in the economy, culture and media - the stigma of southern speech being an impure language is dying off (albeit slowly).

For a native Vietnamese speaker the difference seems very subtle and speakers from both sides are able to understand each other quite easily (especially since the local war ended). Ironically, both sides agree that the speech of the North-central and Central Vietnamese are somewhat bizarre and quite hard to understand for one unacquainted to them. However, for foreigners it's a different story. A foreigner will immediately hear 2 completely different languages at first mostly due to the differences in pronunciation and occasionally vocabulary.

(ND: Northern dialect, SD: Southern dialect)

1. Tones
So what are the differences between the 2? First and foremost there are 6 tones in the ND whereas there are only 5 in the SD (2 tones have merged). The ND has all of the following: ngang (a), sắc (á), huyền (à), hỏi (ả), ngã and nặng (ạ) - whereas the south has merged both hỏi and ngã into the hỏi tone. Once you listen to a southerner speaking and the ngã tone, you'll probably agree that the ngã tone simply doesn't suit the SD.

2. Consonants
Initial consonants are mostly the same except for d-, gi- and occasionally v- which are all pronounced /j/ in the SD but /z/ and /v/ respectively in the ND. The SD keeps tr-/ch- and s-/x- distinctive whereas the ND pronounce them as the latter in both. However, more and more SD speakers are doing the same nowadays. As for the final consonants, the SD has merged a lot of these! The following is a summary of the differences.
Initial consonants
1. s-/x- and tr-/ch- are both distinct in the SD, but not in the ND
2. d-/gi- and occasionally v- are all pronounced /j/ in the SD and /z/ in the ND (except for v-)
3. qu- >/w/
4. kh- sometimes >/f/ or /h/ in informal speech
Final consonants
1. -c/-t > -c (except for -êt, -it)
2. -n/-ng > -n (except for -ên, -in)
3. -n/-nh > -n (in the case of -ên, -in only)
4. -ch > -t
5. -nh > -n

3. Vowels
1. -â-/-ă- occasionally >-ă-
2. -ai/-ay occasionally >-ai
3. -ay/-ây occasionally >-ây
4. -ao/-au occasionally >-ao
5. -êu/-iu occasionally >-iu
6. -i- >-ư- before -ch, -n, -nh, -t
7. -iu/-iêu > -iu
8. -oa/oe pronounced like qua/que
9. 3-way merge between hoa/qua/oa all /wa/ etc.
10. -oi/-ôi occasionally >-oi
11. -ui/uôi occasionally >-ui
12. -ưu/-ươu occasionally >-u
13. -ưu and -ươu are distinct in the SD but become -iu in ND

In addition, r- has many pronunciations depending on the speaker in SD and can even become g- in informal speech plus more differences I haven't listed. As you can see southern speech can be quite difficult for a learner to grasp and even southerners sometimes have trouble remembering how to write words.

Here are a few samples of how the pronunciation is different.

1. Con chuột này có râu dài thòn.
[This mouse has a long moustache]
2. Cháu năm nay được mười tám tuổi.
[I am eighteen years old this year (from a young child to an old person)]
3. Hôm nay trời mát hơn hôm qua.
[Today is (was) cooler than yesterday]
4. Sôcôla bạn ăn hết rồi!
[You have eaten all the chocolate!]
5. Sẽ có một ngày tôi trở về!
[There will be a day when I will return!]
6. Tin tức đài số mười sẽ bắt đầu vào lúc 6 giờ và kết thúc vào 7 giờ tối.
[The channel ten news will begin at 6 pm and end at 7 pm.]

Using the northern spelling, the southern speech may be rendered as:

1. Coong chuộc nầy có râu dài thoòng
2. Cháo năm nai được mười tám tủi.
3. Hom nai trời mác hơng hom qua.
4. Sôcôla bạng ăng hớt rồi.
5. Sẻ có môọc ngài tôi trở về.
6. Tưn tức đài số mười sẻ bắc đầu vào lúc sáo giờ và kết thúc vào lúc 7 giờ.

I have made an audio clip but it's a .wav file so I can't attach it :(

Never mind :P >
Northern sample
Southern sample
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby imbecilica » Fri 23 Oct 2009 3:54 am

Sobekhotep wrote:@imbecilica, how do you pronounce your vowels? I've read conflicting analyses for some of Vietnamese vowels. For you, is <ư> [ɨ] or [ɯ]? I would think it would have to be the latter because of it's prominence in diphthongs and since there is no approximant which corresponds to [ɨ].
How about your <ơ>? Is it [əː] or [ɤː]?
And <â> is just a short version of <ơ>, right?


:P Sorry for being so late to answer this but here goes.

The letter ư in Vietnamese is pronounced in two ways. Simply:
1. If another consonant or vowel follows it, then it is pronounced /ɨ/
2. If nothing follows it, then it is pronounced /ɯ/

As for the letter ơ, it can be pronounced both /əː/ and /ɤː/, and yes it is a shortened form of â - and â is pronounced as /ɜ/ or /ə/.
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Re: Free Vietnamese Lessons for Fun!

Postby Sobekhotep » Sat 24 Oct 2009 1:24 am

imbecilica wrote:As for the letter ơ, it can be pronounced both /əː/ and /ɤː/, and yes it is a shortened form of â

You mean <â> is a short form of <ơ>, right? :?
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