Newbie from Norway:)

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Newbie from Norway:)

Postby lelisel » Tue 04 Jun 2013 6:44 pm

Hi, I´m a newbie in this forum. I´m an exchange student at Rice University in Houston, TX from Norway. If any of you have questions about Norwegian, please let me know;)
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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby choc_pud » Tue 04 Jun 2013 7:34 pm

Hei og velkommen! I am also fairly new to this website, but I have found it very helpful so far.

I do have a question about Norwegian incidentally: I have heard it is a tonal language, but when I've seen it written down I can't see any way in which the tones are reproduced in writing. Am I right there or am I missing something?

Your English is very good by the way! Have you learnt any other language, or is English your first? I am learning German, French and Welsh.

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Dyfal donc a dyr y garreg, ydy?
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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby lelisel » Tue 04 Jun 2013 7:47 pm

Thank you, I have been learning English for some time now. Have just started learning French:)

Norwegian is not a tonal language. But the Scandinavian phenomenon "tonelag" reminiscent tonal language, but differs from tonal language by just being realized in the pressure strong syllables, where the tone is realized both in print and strong pressure weak position. Was this clarifying?
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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby choc_pud » Tue 04 Jun 2013 9:22 pm

Ah, righto. What do you think of our language in comparison to French? Which is easier? And what do you think of our spelling system? It is famous for its irregularity but that is important, In my opinion, because it shows the etymology of a word. Though I would change certain things if I could.

Ah okay, I understand now, thankyou. That shall make it easier for me if I ever try learning Norwegian. If I were to, which form of Norwegian would you recommend? Nynorsk or Bokmal?

Two more questions: What is the longest word in Norwegian? And have you tried to pronounce the name of a village on Anglesey, Wales, which is written as follows: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantisiliogoggoch. It is possible, I can do it! :D

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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby lelisel » Wed 05 Jun 2013 6:39 pm

I love English, it´s not that hard. French is hard....

I would recommend Bokmål:)

The longest Norwegian word is:
minoritetsladningsbærerdiffusjonskoeffisientmålingsapparatur
(at least one of them ;) ) Try to pronounce that ;)
I am not able to pronounce the name you wrote. Too difficult!
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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby choc_pud » Wed 05 Jun 2013 9:51 pm

I am glad you like English and that you don't find it too difficult! I have found French relatively easy to learn but that is probably because it is a much more similar language to English than it is to Norwegian. All the "-tion" nouns are particularly helpful!

Ah, thankyou. What is the difference betwixt them, anyway? and is it easy to understand them both if you've been brought up only speaking the one?

Golly that's a long word! Did you hear about German officially having its longest word removed from the lexicon? It was something to do with beef packaging.

I have tried to pronounce that word you spoke of and it doesn't seem to hard! Other than that I am not really very well versed in Norwegian phonology. Is it something to do with the spreading about of small apparatuses? Possibly to do with posting letters? That is all guessing from looking at the word and seeing similarities with English words.

Well to be fair that is a Welsh word not an English one. Here is the longest English word which can be readily found in an average dictionary: Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis; it is a disease which miners get from inhaling coal-dust.

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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby lelisel » Fri 07 Jun 2013 4:37 pm

I have learned Bokmål. Nynorsk is written more like Danish, but they are not that different. (Bokmål is the easiest, I think)

What have been the best way for you to learn a language?
I have made a profile at Lrngo, livemocha and italki. Have you experience with one of them? Can you recommend any of them?
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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby linguoboy » Fri 07 Jun 2013 6:49 pm

lelisel wrote:I have learned Bokmål. Nynorsk is written more like Danish, but they are not that different.

I thought it was completely the other way round. Cf.:

DAN: Norge, officielt Kongeriget Norge, er en skandinavisk enhedsstat...der består af den vestlige del af den skandinaviske halvø[.]

BM: Kongeriket Norge er et nordisk, europeisk land og en selvstendig stat vest på den skandinaviske halvøy.

NN: Noreg, offisielt Kongedømet Noreg, er eit nordisk land vest på den skandinaviske halvøya.
english*deutsch*nederlands*català*castellano*gaelainn*cymraeg*français*svenska*韓國말*漢語
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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby choc_pud » Sat 15 Jun 2013 8:08 pm

What have been the best way for you to learn a language?
I have made a profile at Lrngo, livemocha and italki. Have you experience with one of them? Can you recommend any of them?


I apologise for the delay in replying, I have been away for a while. To answer your question, I have find that Michel Thomas is a particularly good one to use, as it teaches the language in a systematic and methodical way, pointing out firstly any words which are the same or nearly the same in the language you're trying to learn.

I hope that was helpful! I have not used any of the ones you've mentioned, so I cannot pass judgement on them.

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Re: Newbie from Norway:)

Postby Vavva » Tue 06 Aug 2013 6:39 pm

We call it "tonemes" in Norwegian, which, like lelisel said, isn't truly tones, but is still rather essential to learn in order to master oral Norwegian. This is never indicated in written language; thus, you have to learn the tonemes of the Norwegian words with 2 or more syllables where the stress isn't put on the last syllable. There are 2 tonemes in Norwegian:

Toneme 1: Present in most foreign words and loanwords, however, this also is highly frequent in common Norwegian aswell. _/ (starts low, then pitches up)
An example word: Bønder "peasants" (almost rhymes with "gunner" in English)
Toneme 2: Present in some loanwords aswell, but is mostly in the "most Norwegian" words. \/ (starts high, pitches slightly down and then goes up again).
An example word: Bønner "prayers, beans" (no English similar rhyme)
These example words may indeed be tricky to tell apart, and there surely exist more in Norwegian. I am very glad that I don't have to learn this as an adult, as it would've been way too hard to remember correctly all the time!

When it comes to whether you should choose Bokmål or Nynorsk, I would prefer Bokmål (lit. Book goal/tongue/language, with toneme 2). Approximately 85% of the population uses it, and Nynorsk (lit. New Norwegian, with toneme 2) is mostly kept alive as an official language through heavy promotion, following a lengthy debate over the course of the Norwegian language which lasted through the entire 20th century. Some would consider Nynorsk a more lyrical language, which I indeed think it is, but it has its flaws, and unless you would happen to settle in rural western Norway, you won't have much use for it compared to Bokmål. As a fluent Bokmål speaker you will have no problem at all understanding Nynorsk and vice versa.

Danish is way closer to Bokmål than to Nynorsk, and Danish is more or less mutually unintelligible with Nynorsk, whereas written Bokmål is very close to Danish. This has to do with the history of the Norwegian written language, as the modern Bokmål is based on the administrative (=Danish) language used in Norway, which was then made more Norwegian over the years to better suit the public language.

Norwegian words may be indefinitely added to each other to make endless chains; therefore there is no such thing as a longest word in Norwegian. My guess would be "menneskerettighetsorganisasjonene" (33 letters, the human rights organisations), which is the longest one in fairly common use. I have yet to see anyone use the word "minoritetsladningsbærerdiffusjonskoeffisientmålingsapparatur" used anywhere.

I did not mean in any way to denounce my fellow Norwegian lelisel, but I wanted to clarify and help you people a bit learning a great language!

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