All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
  Print view

Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2009 3:17 pm 
Offline

Joined:Fri 14 Aug 2009 7:20 pm
Posts:4
Can someone please translate "Slave of the God" and "Servant of the God" into Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse?


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2009 5:03 pm 
User avatar
Offline

Joined:Sun 19 Apr 2009 8:39 am
Posts:64
Well, I don't know that I can help you much on the Old Norse, but in Old English “Slave of God” would be Godes Þeōwa, while “Servant of God” might be Godes Þeōw or Godes Scealc (although scealc is apparently also used as “soldier” and “sailor”). The words þeōwa and þeōw almost seem to be interchangeable...

Edit:

After looking through some Old Norse material, I've found quite a few words for "servant" but only one for "slave":

húskarl -- probably related to something like "house-churl", a man of the house? (OE hūs-carl)
(skó)sveinn
þegn -- I assume this is cognate with "thain" (OE þegn or þegen).
þjónustamaðr

þræll -- probably related to "thrall" (OE þrǣl)

Oh, and I do know that the word for "god" in ON is áss, but I'm unsure about the genitive sg...

_________________
Image
The Kain - a conscript by W. Kruger
N'ketle - an artlang


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2009 10:25 pm 
Offline

Joined:Sun 19 Apr 2009 8:22 am
Posts:768
Location: Canada
Kietl wrote:
Well, I don't know that I can help you much on the Old Norse, but in Old English “Slave of God” would be Godes Þeōwa, while “Servant of God” might be Godes Þeōw or Godes Scealc (although scealc is apparently also used as “soldier” and “sailor”). The words þeōwa and þeōw almost seem to be interchangeable...
Wouldn't this be þēow? Ie. the ēo is a diphthong.
Quote:
húskarl -- probably related to something like "house-churl", a man of the house? (OE hūs-carl)
I know this as ceorl, but maybe that's a dialectal difference.
Quote:
þræll -- probably related to "thrall" (OE þrǣl)
I'm pretty sure this is the Norse word for slave. It's translated as "thrall" in everything I've ever read about the Viking age.

_________________
العربية * 中文 * English * Français * Русский * Português * Español * हिन्दी/اردو * Deutsch * 日本語


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2009 11:21 pm 
User avatar
Offline

Joined:Sun 19 Apr 2009 8:39 am
Posts:64
Quote:
Wouldn't this be þēow? Ie. the ēo is a diphthong.

Ah, true. I'm using Hall's Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary and the Bosworth-Toller Anglo-Saxon Dictionary, both of which standardize everything as and eo (both being diphthongs). I notice, though, that Richard Hogg uses ēo in his Intro. to Old English.

Quote:
I know this as ceorl, but maybe that's a dialectal difference.

You mean carl vs. ceorl? Yeah, that's (roughly) a northern vs. southern difference,since there's a palatal/non-palatal distinction and OE carl is pretty much identical with ON karl (from Norse contact in northern Britain).

Quote:
I'm pretty sure this is the Norse word for slave. It's translated as "thrall" in everything I've ever read about the Viking age.

Right, I should have distinguished. That was the one word for "slave" that I mentioned, whereas the preceding words were all for "servant".

_________________
Image
The Kain - a conscript by W. Kruger
N'ketle - an artlang


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2009 1:44 am 
Offline

Joined:Sun 19 Apr 2009 8:22 am
Posts:768
Location: Canada
Kietl wrote:
Quote:
Wouldn't this be þēow? Ie. the ēo is a diphthong.

Ah, true. I'm using Hall's Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary and the Bosworth-Toller Anglo-Saxon Dictionary, both of which standardize everything as and eo (both being diphthongs). I notice, though, that Richard Hogg uses ēo in his Intro. to Old English.
I believe the first element is long, so I'm not sure why they write it that way.
Quote:
You mean carl vs. ceorl? Yeah, that's (roughly) a northern vs. southern difference,since there's a palatal/non-palatal distinction and OE carl is pretty much identical with ON karl (from Norse contact in northern Britain).
That's the problem: which dialect of OE to use, and which dialect of ON. From my understanding Old West Saxon is the standard for OE, but I'm not sure which is for ON.

_________________
العربية * 中文 * English * Français * Русский * Português * Español * हिन्दी/اردو * Deutsch * 日本語


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2009 6:18 am 
User avatar
Offline

Joined:Sun 19 Apr 2009 4:53 am
Posts:714
Location: America's Dairyland
Apparently muhammadi posted this topic twice because I replied to a duplicate in the "Extinct Languages" subforum.

For Old Norse, I came up with guðsinnr þræll for "slave of the God" & guðsinnr þegn for "servant of the God". I think guð is better than áss here.

For Old English, I came up with se godes nīedling for "slave of the God" & se godes þēow for "servant of the God". I got nīedling from the Old English Wiktionary. You'll notice that I have se in front because muhammadi's phrases use "the God" as opposed to simply "God".

_________________
ለሐዘበ ፡ ዘየደአ


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2009 6:54 am 
User avatar
Offline

Joined:Sun 19 Apr 2009 8:39 am
Posts:64
@Sobekhotep:
Quote:
For Old English, I came up with se godes nīedling for "slave of the God" & se godes þēow for "servant of the God". I got nīedling from the Old English Wiktionary. You'll notice that I have se in front because muhammadi's phrases use "the God" as opposed to simply "God".

That would probably work better, since the þēow/þēowa distinction is kind of thin. Although the only record of "nīedling" that I can find (outside of Wiktionary, which I personally wouldn't use as a primary source) is nīd-ling, translated as "bondservant" or "captive".

Also, seeing as I forgot the demonstrative, you would also need to use the genitive sg. masc. form with godes:

þæs godes nīedling/þēow

@Talib:
Quote:
That's the problem: which dialect of OE to use, and which dialect of ON. From my understanding Old West Saxon is the standard for OE, but I'm not sure which is for ON.

Yeah, Old West Saxon is the standard for texts (since that was kind of the center of OE literature at the time). I guess I'm a little bit partial to Northumbrian dialects for some reason. :P More "Scandinavian" (not Shandinavian!).

_________________
Image
The Kain - a conscript by W. Kruger
N'ketle - an artlang


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Mon 24 Aug 2009 11:31 am 
Offline

Joined:Fri 14 Aug 2009 7:20 pm
Posts:4
How would you pronounce "þēow"?


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Tue 25 Aug 2009 1:30 am 
User avatar
Offline

Joined:Sun 19 Apr 2009 4:53 am
Posts:714
Location: America's Dairyland
Kietl wrote:
seeing as I forgot the demonstrative, you would also need to use the genitive sg. masc. form with godes:

þæs godes nīedling/þēow

Yeah, I forgot to decline the determiner. :oops:

muhammadi wrote:
How would you pronounce "þēow"?

Probably something like [θeːow].

_________________
ለሐዘበ ፡ ዘየደአ


Top
 Profile  
 

Re: Help in Anglo-Saxon/Old English and Old Norse!!!
PostPosted: Tue 25 Aug 2009 7:59 pm 
Offline

Joined:Sun 19 Apr 2009 8:22 am
Posts:768
Location: Canada
Yes but we shouldn't assume he knows how to read IPA. Muhammadi, what is your native language?

_________________
العربية * 中文 * English * Français * Русский * Português * Español * हिन्दी/اردو * Deutsch * 日本語


Top
 Profile  
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


  Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
 
5 Vina del Mar hotels from DirectRooms


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group