MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

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MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Vojta » Wed 10 Mar 2010 12:54 pm

Vsi na svietie znajut jazyk Esperanto. Jest to s‘tvorienij univerzalnij legko se učimij jazyk. No ako li človiek hoče rozumieti Esperantu, treba jest mu se Esperanto naučiti. No našemu jazyku može slovienskij človiek rozumieti bez potreby se jego učiti. A ako li se jego nauči, toj človiek može dobro rozumieti jazykom drugih slovienskih narodov bez potreby preložienia.

Idea jednego slovienskego univerzalnego jazyka existovaše uže ot 17. stoletia. Ako li otvorite tuty webove stranicy (http://steen.free.fr/slovianski/constru ... uages.html), budete vidieti, že na svietie dnes imajeme v‘kupie više 20 takih podobnih s‘stavienih mežduslovienskih jazykov jako jest tutoj Novoslovienskij jazyk. Blagodaria ljudim jako jest Jan van Steenbergen, Andrej Moraczewski, Igor Polyakov, Marek Hučko, Gabriel Svoboda, Ondrej Rečnik i Richard Ruibar, mežduslovienski jazyky imajut na internetu svoje skupštiny, besedy, slovniky i gazety.

Mežduslovienski jazyky byli s‘stavieni jako kombinacie i oprostienia s‘vremenih živih jazykov. Jesut to prosti jazyky. Iz nih jest najsilnejšie govorimij jazyk Slovianski i jazyk Slovio, iže jest podobnij Esperantu. Jazyk Slovianski imaje svoj slovnik, kojže poručujeme koristiti, bo jazyky Slovianski i Novoslovienski označujeme za dva (p‘rvij s prostoj grammatikoj i orthografiej i vtorij s p‘lnoj grammatikoj i orthografiej) veliko blizki mežduslovienski jazyky.

Novoslovienskij jazyk jest originalnij v tom, že jest iz‘dielanij jako akademicka extrapolacia i modernizacia staroslovienskego i c‘rkvenoslovienskego jazyka do modernego vremene. Grammatika jego ne jest minimalno redukovana jako jesut grammatiky prostiejših mežduslovienskih jazykov. Novoslovienskij jazyk jest podobnejšij živim slovienskim jazykom. Jest to jazyk bogatij, kojže imaje grammatiku i morfologiu identičnu ili blizko podobnu živim jazykom. (Jazyk imaje 7 padov v‘kupie s vokativom, jedninu, množinu i dvojinu, 6 glagolnih vremen, i.t.d.) No v roz‘lišenii ot živih jazykov ne imaje mnogo zakonov i zato ne jest težko porozumitielnij i učimij.

Ako li se interesujete v mežduslovienskom dialogu, roz‘myslite sebie, možete li s pomoštij mežduslovienskih jazykov širiti roz‘lični interesni informacii o kulturie i istorii Slovienov na svietie. Univerzalnimi mežduslovienskimi jazyky ot‘vorite svoj slovienskij narod drugim narodom, bo oni Vam budut lučšie rozumieti.

V novoslovienskem jazyku Vam pisah
V.
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Vojtieh, the conlanger
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Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Vojta » Wed 10 Mar 2010 12:57 pm

Naše selo.
inspirovane textom ot Mary Russel Mitford, kniga Our Village 1824

Iz vsih možnih idealnih miest, v kojihže žijut ljudi, najbolie ljubiu male selo, daleko ot šumnego grada, s jego maloj obštinoj. Ono ne imaje prep‘lnieni bloky, samo male d‘rvene budniky. Jest to proste i slične miesto za života, s žitieljami, ktorih lica sut rovno znajemi jako cviety v našem sadie. To jest zatvorienij sviet s nemnogo ljudiami, blizko s‘jednienimi jako mravky v mravkovej kupie, pčely v pčelnikie, ovcy v ovcej štalie, monahi v monastirie ili morjaki na korabie, gdie vsij znaje vsego i vse jest znane ot vsego, gdie vsij se interesuje v vsim i vsij može imati nadeju, že niekto se v niem interesuje.

Jako drago by bylo zanoriti se v to s‘rdečne čuvstvo ljubienia i neznamih upotreb, s‘brati se i byti kolegy s tiemi vsimi jedinstvenimi ljudimi okolo nas! Tako, že my budeme znati i ljubiti vsi zakuty i povraty tenkih ulic i s‘lncem pokryti luki, črez koježe budeme hoditi vsij den ot jutra do večera. Mala socialna gruppa, iže jest selska obština, jest to, čemuže poezia i proza blagodari najbolie. Ide tamo uzka droga, iže v lepem teplem dni prehodi veliku široku drogu p‘lnu aut i tirov. Ne hočete li putovati s mnoj, dragij čitatieli? Put ne bude d‘lga. My budeme putovati ot počatku doliny i ot‘tamo ideme nagorie.

Наше село.

Из всих можних идеалних міест, в койихже жийут људи, найболіе љубю мале село, далеко от шумнего града, с єго малой общиной. Оно не имайе препълніени блокы, само мале дървене будники. Єст то просте и сличне міесто за живота, с житіељами, кторих лица сут ровно знайеми яко цвіеты в нашем садіе. То іест затворіеній свіет с немного људіами, близко съйедніеними яко мравки в мравковей купіе, пчелы в пчелникіе, овцы в овцей шталіе, монахи в монастиріе или морьаки на корабіе, гдіе всій знайе всего и все єст знане от всего, гдіе всій се интересуйе в всим и всій може имати надейу, же ніекто се в ніем интересуйе.

Яко драго бы было занорити се в то сърдечне чувство љубіения и незнамих употреб, събрати се и быти колегы с тіеми всими єдинственими људими около нас! Тако, же мы будеме знати и љубити вси закуты и повраты тенких улиц и сълнцем покрыти луки, чрез койеже будеме ходити всій ден от ютра до вечера. Мала социална группа, иже єст селска община, єст то, чемуже поезия и проза благодари найболіе. Иде тамо узка дрога, иже в лепем теплем дни преходи велику широку дрогу пълну аут и тиров. Не хочете ли путовати с мной, драгій читатіели? Пут не буде дълга. Мы будеме путовати от початку долины и отътамо идеме нагоріе.
============
Vojtieh, the conlanger
Neoslavonic language, Slavic conlangs
http://www.neoslavonic.org, http://IZVIESTIJA.info
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Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Delodephius » Wed 10 Mar 2010 4:58 pm

As a native speaker of two quite different Slavic language I can say I understand every word of what you wrote. But then again I also studied Russian for four years and Old Church Slavonic in my own free time, and I had practice with other Slavic languages as well. So I can understand what you say, but how would a monolingual Slavic speaker face this language?

To me, the question is not whether we should create a language all Slavs could understand, but rather to create a language which all Slavs could learn with ease and speak with it to others who have learned it. In other words, to create a Slavic Lingua Franca. Because whether we like it or not, this new Slavic language will have to be learned first as any other language is learned. Sure, to understand it you don't have to learn it, but to produce in it you would have to. So technically all we need is a language that all Slavs could learn easily and understand easily, not necessarily a language that has features of all Slavic languages (although it would be fun :-D ), nor necessarily a compromise between them (Slavic languages have a very large amount of false friends). Thinking in that manner we wouldn't need cases nor a large amount of phonemes. It could be made very simple indeed, even if it would look strange to most Slavic speakers.

Slovianski seem a bit too complex and has a certain North Slavic (West+East Slavic) feeling to it.

If I remember correctly I was part of the group who started with the first experiments, but I haven't checked its progress in years. I remember there was a fellow named Gabriel or something like that who worked on it. I don't remember the circumstances due to which I left nor even the username I was using on the forum, come to think of it that forum doesn't even exist anymore. It must have been about 3-4 years or so. It is good to know the project is still going on. I don't doubt any idea I could produce has already been over-discussed.
- Latina Ἑλληνική संस्कृतम् पाळि עִבְרִית پارسيک الفصحى 文言 Norrœnt
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Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Vojta » Thu 11 Mar 2010 7:17 pm

Hi,

Delodephius wrote:...how would a monolingual Slavic speaker face this language?


We performed several reading tests with monolingual Slavic speakers. Czechs understand approx. 85%, Polish and Slovak 95%, Lusatian Sorbs 100% :), Southern 95%, Russians 75% :cry:, but other eastern also 95%. Not so bad.

Delodephius wrote:To me, the question is not whether we should create a language all Slavs could understand, but rather to create a language which all Slavs could learn with ease and speak with it to others who have learned it. In other words, to create a Slavic Lingua Franca. Because whether we like it or not, this new Slavic language will have to be learned first as any other language is learned. Sure, to understand it you don't have to learn it, but to produce in it you would have to. So technically all we need is a language that all Slavs could learn easily and understand easily, not necessarily a language that has features of all Slavic languages (although it would be fun :-D ), nor necessarily a compromise between them (Slavic languages have a very large amount of false friends).


Well, creation of the slavic interlanguage, which all Slavs can easy understand, is not difficuilt. See this link http://steen.free.fr/slovianski/constructed_slavic_languages.html.

But we wanted to create bit different language, which covers in simplified and exception-less form features of all Slavic languages, in order to create tool for easier learning or understanding of national slavic languages. And also to reduce some "false friends" via using their etymological old slavic origin. (This is why in NS language is for example pair desnij-levij, pair pravij-krivij, etc.)

This is based on the idea of "receptive learning method", where a trainee knows a similar language and this knowledge enables him immediately to understand passively other language. (It was elaborated by french linguistics for the romance languages learning).

Novoslovienskij jazyk is imaginary evolution of the old slavonic language following the same processes from evolution of the national languages. Possible analogy is the modern literary Arabic. It is also derived from the qoran language and serves as the inter-arabic language.

bye
V.
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Vojtieh, the conlanger
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http://www.neoslavonic.org, http://IZVIESTIJA.info
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Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Delodephius » Thu 11 Mar 2010 8:51 pm

I have never been to much fond of conlangs or auxlangs. I am more interested in creating new stuff for already existing languages that everyone could use. Creating my own language even though it could have a potential of being learned and used by few people is not really appealing to me. It is feels a bit lonely. Numbers play a big role in my language choice. Though I was interested in Old Church Slavonic for a long period I eventually lost interest in it simply because it was too isolated. First of all it was a dead language, second it was a language of religion and I'm not interested in religion at all. The third reason is actually related to for example your Novoslovienskij. Too limited. It can only be understood by Slavs, even if all Slavs for that matter, still just Slavs nonetheless.

I most likely wouldn't bother with Novoslovienskij, a natural Slavic language suits me better I guess. And of course there is also the fact that I don't really like the way Novoslovienskij is written, well the Cyrillic version anyway, the Latin one is pretty decent. Though I do understand that is for easier reading, but certain fancy features of Slavonic stick with me and nothing short of them would fit, although from a practical point of view they would be completely unwanted.
- Latina Ἑλληνική संस्कृतम् पाळि עִבְרִית پارسيک الفصحى 文言 Norrœnt
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Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Vojta » Fri 12 Mar 2010 3:58 pm

Well, before we finish this discussion, please write here Your idea how to improve my text Naše selo (either its latin or cyrillic version). I really want to know Your taste.

hvala lepo i puno pozdrava
V.

Delodephius wrote:I have never been to much fond of conlangs or auxlangs. I am more interested in creating new stuff for already existing languages that everyone could use. Creating my own language even though it could have a potential of being learned and used by few people is not really appealing to me. It is feels a bit lonely. Numbers play a big role in my language choice. Though I was interested in Old Church Slavonic for a long period I eventually lost interest in it simply because it was too isolated. First of all it was a dead language, second it was a language of religion and I'm not interested in religion at all. The third reason is actually related to for example your Novoslovienskij. Too limited. It can only be understood by Slavs, even if all Slavs for that matter, still just Slavs nonetheless.

I most likely wouldn't bother with Novoslovienskij, a natural Slavic language suits me better I guess. And of course there is also the fact that I don't really like the way Novoslovienskij is written, well the Cyrillic version anyway, the Latin one is pretty decent. Though I do understand that is for easier reading, but certain fancy features of Slavonic stick with me and nothing short of them would fit, although from a practical point of view they would be completely unwanted.
============
Vojtieh, the conlanger
Neoslavonic language, Slavic conlangs
http://www.neoslavonic.org, http://IZVIESTIJA.info
============
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Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Delodephius » Fri 12 Mar 2010 4:56 pm

Well this is for example the type of Cyrillic orthography that I like:

Изъ всихъ можнихъ идеалнихъ мѣстъ, въ коїхъже жиютъ люди, найболѣ любю мале село, далеко отъ шумнего града, съ єго малой объщиной. Оно не имає препълнѣни блокы, само мале дървене будники. Єстъ то просте и сличне мѣсто за живота, съ житѣлями, кторихъ лица сутъ ровно знаєми яко цвѣты въ нашемъ садѣ. То єстъ затворѣній свѣтъ съ немного людіями, близко съєднѣними яко мравки въ мравковей купѣ, пчелы въ пчелникѣ, овцы въ овцей шталѣ, монахи въ монастирѣ или моряки на корабѣ, гдѣ всій знає всего и все єстъ знане отъ всего, гдѣ всій се интересує въ всимъ и всій може имати надею, же нѣкто се въ нѣмъ интересує.

Яко драго бы было занорити се въ то сърдечне чувство љубѣнія и незнамихъ употребъ, събрати се и быти колегы съ тѣми всими єдинственими людими около насъ! Тако, же мы будеме знати и любити вси закуты и повраты тенкихъ улиць и сълнцемъ покрыти луки, чрезъ коєже будеме ходити всій денъ отъ ютра до вечера. Мала социална группа, иже єстъ селска объщина, єстъ то, чемуже поезия и проза благодари найболѣ. Иде тамо узка дрога, иже въ лепемъ теплемъ дни преходи велику широку дрогу пълну аутъ и тиров. Не хочете ли путовати съ мной, драгій читатѣли? Путъ не буде дълга. Мы будеме путовати отъ початку долины и отътамо идеме нагорѣ.

It does look like Church Slavonic orthography, but that's the only kind of orthography I like when it comes to Cyrillic, even if it can seem outdated.
- Latina Ἑλληνική संस्कृतम् पाळि עִבְרִית پارسيک الفصحى 文言 Norrœnt
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Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Vojta » Fri 12 Mar 2010 9:29 pm

Delodephius wrote:Well this is for example the type of Cyrillic orthography that I like:

Изъ всихъ можнихъ идеалнихъ мѣстъ, въ коїхъже жиютъ люди, найболѣ любю мале село, далеко отъ шумнего града, съ єго малой объщиной. Оно не имає препълнѣни блокы, само мале дървене будники. Єстъ то просте и сличне мѣсто за живота, съ житѣлями, кторихъ лица сутъ ровно знаєми яко цвѣты въ нашемъ садѣ. То єстъ затворѣній свѣтъ съ немного людіями, близко съєднѣними яко мравки въ мравковей купѣ, пчелы въ пчелникѣ, овцы въ овцей шталѣ, монахи въ монастирѣ или моряки на корабѣ, гдѣ всій знає всего и все єстъ знане отъ всего, гдѣ всій се интересує въ всимъ и всій може имати надею, же нѣкто се въ нѣмъ интересує.

Яко драго бы было занорити се въ то сърдечне чувство љубѣнія и незнамихъ употребъ, събрати се и быти колегы съ тѣми всими єдинственими людими около насъ! Тако, же мы будеме знати и любити вси закуты и повраты тенкихъ улиць и сълнцемъ покрыти луки, чрезъ коєже будеме ходити всій денъ отъ ютра до вечера. Мала социална группа, иже єстъ селска объщина, єстъ то, чемуже поезия и проза благодари найболѣ. Иде тамо узка дрога, иже въ лепемъ теплемъ дни преходи велику широку дрогу пълну аутъ и тиров. Не хочете ли путовати съ мной, драгій читатѣли? Путъ не буде дълга. Мы будеме путовати отъ початку долины и отътамо идеме нагорѣ.

It does look like Church Slavonic orthography, but that's the only kind of orthography I like when it comes to Cyrillic, even if it can seem outdated.


Отълично!!!
Лѣпа орѳографія - съвида се ми, но была бы толико за експертѡв.

Поздравує и благодари
В.

(єстъ то подобне на туты страницы: http://www.russportal.ru/index.php?id=oldorth.iljin :) )
============
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Neoslavonic language, Slavic conlangs
http://www.neoslavonic.org, http://IZVIESTIJA.info
============
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Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Vojta » Thu 01 Apr 2010 4:26 pm

USPIEH, IMAJEME PROJEKT E.U. !!!

Pozdrav Vsim!

S velkoj pomoštij gosp. prof. Linharta imajeme registrovanij i akceptovanij projekt E.U. na temu "Web for Inter-Slavic Language Training ".
Projekt imaje čislo "CZ-2010-063-001" v sekcii Comenius-Grundvig Training. Jest to konstrukcia webu medžuslovienskego jazyka i letna škola/kongres v Pragie v Septembrie

2010 v prostorah kampusu "University of Life Sciences" (http://www.czu.cz/en, 50°7'48.078"N, 14°22'25.28"E, blizko ot Medžunarodnego Letište/Airport Praga, cca 15 min

lokalnim autobusom na Pražske Metro/Subway, vkupie cca 30 min transporta ot kampusu do istoričnego centra Pragy). Bude-li dostatečnij interes, možeme ještie iz‘dielati

exkursie na roz‘lične istorične ili prirodne miesta v Čehii nedalego ot Pragi (napr. istoričnij grad UNESCO: http://www.kutnahora.cz).

========
Jako participovati na projektu:

1.
Toj, kto hoče participovati na projektu jako učastnik ili jako učitiel, treba jest mu ot nas iz Pragi dostati "letter of acceptance". Prošu Vas, da byste sebie prostudovali material i

potom napsali e-mail na dvie adresie linhart.zdenek@gmail.com,vmerunka@gmail.com. (ime, adres, den rodienia, forma participacii na projektu)

2.
My jemu povratno pošleme toj "letter of acceptance" črez klasičnu poštu (jako papir).

3.
Priglasiti sebe na registracijnom formularu EU projektov.
S "letter of acceptance" ot nas is iz‘plnienim formularom iz webu jest treba iti na Vašu narodnu agenturu E.U. - Comenius i Gruntvig. Ovu agenturu imajut vsi d‘ržavy E.U.

4.
Ako li vse bude OK, dostanete na svojej agenturie dotaciu na financie:
a) financie za Vaš transport ot Vas k nam i povratno, b) 80 ceny ot "course fee" i c) dotaciu100 Eur na vsiakij den u nas. Cena žitia v kampusu jest pribl. 20Eur na jedin den - to

znači, že ostalnih 20% ceny kurzu (t.j. 20% iz ceny 1050 EUR) legko možete platiti iz dotacie na 7 dnov i ještie budete profitovati niešto malo za sebe.

5.
Kto ne hoče participovati samo pasivno jako "trainee", no hoče byti ještie "web-creator or tutor", prosime jego, da by se s nami kontaktoval i my s nim s‘stavime specialnij

kontrakt. Detaily kontraktu (finacie, tema roboty, ...) dogovorime lično.

========

Tu jest kompletna informacia o projektu:
http://ec.europa.eu/education/trainingd ... &cid=24601

Tu jest instrukcia na priglašenie do projektu:
http://www.naep.cz/download-variant.php ... er_id=177&

Tu jest registracijnij formular i ot‘kazy na manualy:
http://ec.europa.eu/education/trainingd ... search.cfm

Raduju se, že se možeme vidieti u nas v Pragie.

s uvaženiem
Voitieh
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Neoslavonic language, Slavic conlangs
http://www.neoslavonic.org, http://IZVIESTIJA.info
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Joined: Tue 11 Aug 2009 11:30 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic, E.U.

Re: MEŽDUSLOVIENSKI JAZYKY - МЕЖДУСЛОВІЕНСКИ ЯЗЫКЫ

Postby Vojta » Sun 03 Oct 2010 5:00 pm

Pozdrav vsim!

Moje d'lge mlčanie bylo s'diejane nedostatkom vremene, rabotoj na slovnikie, novoslovienskim grantom EU itd. Dnes imajeme 5800 slov konvertovanih iz staroslovienskego jazyka. Pozrij: http://sites.google.com/site/novoslovienskij/slovniky
Mysliu, že bolšie čislo slov dielati ne budeme. Lučšie jest polzovati za moderni slova slovniki ot Slovianski ili Slovioski. S Janom van Steenbergenom imajeme dogovor o jedinakej internej formie, kojaže imaje nasalne, tv'rde Y i mekke I, normalne E i jať IE i ovu internu formu budeme sebie automatično konvertovati do SL i NS jazyka. Pozrij naš software: http://sites.google.com/site/novoslovie ... pplication i stranicu Jana: http://steen.free.fr/slovianski/nauczni_slovianski.html. NS i SL jazyk sut mnogo blizki jazyky i ne imaje smysl dielati rozlični slovniky. Naš korpus transformovanih staroslovienskih slov jest naučnij experiment, s kojimže s pomoštij bogatej NS grammatiky hočeme rešati problemu slovienskih "false friends": http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Frie ... he_Slavist

s uvaženiem i radostij iz progressa
Vojta
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Vojtieh, the conlanger
Neoslavonic language, Slavic conlangs
http://www.neoslavonic.org, http://IZVIESTIJA.info
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Joined: Tue 11 Aug 2009 11:30 pm
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