Polyglot Jesus

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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby linguoboy » Wed 19 Aug 2009 3:52 am

formiko wrote:But the US was founded on Christian precepts, and the majority of the founding fathers accepted Christ as their savior. This country has seriously turned away from that.

The majority of founding fathers owned people as chattel. We've also gotten away from that as well.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby Talib » Wed 19 Aug 2009 4:02 am

The United States was founded on political liberalism (which is a lot broader than the modern-day ideology known as and sometimes disparagingly referred to as liberalism). That the majority of the Founding Fathers were Christians, or at least theists of some sort is not relevant, in the same way that it's not relevant that modern India was founded by Hindus and Muslims.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby formiko » Wed 19 Aug 2009 4:50 am

The US also had war which is also against the words of Christ! Just like King Josiah who "rediscovered" the Law and removed all the idols from the land (predicted in Habbakuk). God's people can rediscover lost teachings, but too many times it rejects the plain words of Christ.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby Delodephius » Wed 19 Aug 2009 8:49 pm

formiko wrote:"It's not the things I don't understand that bother me, it's the things I do understand!" -- Dietrich Bonhoffer

Mr Bonhoffer and I seem to have totally opposite philosophies.

I personally don't care much about Christianity. It's a Middle Eastern religion to me and hence not that interesting. Especially the Old Testament part. I have read the New Testament and I studied some of it in Church class, but I never even looked into the Old Testament. In fact, I've never seen a copy of the OT in my native language! All I have are some 100 year old Bibles written in Biblical Czech that have the OT but I never read any of it. It's too alien to me. All I knew about that I learned in class I have forgotten a long time ago. I have spoken to many religious people in my life but not one of them ever quoted something from the OT. The Genesis part is familiar, then some of Noah and Moses, but most names and events mentioned in the OT are unknown to people around me. One of my neighbours, who is btw a religious man, has a dog called Aaron. He had no idea who the Biblical Aaron was or that even Aaron is a human name. The Christians where I live, no matter of what Church, are mostly ignorant of the OT. My mother always says we don't need the OT. We are Christians. The New Testament is all that matters for us.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby Leitbulb » Wed 19 Aug 2009 9:29 pm

"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.'"--John Adams

"The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."--John Adams

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."--Thomas Jefferson

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all."--Thomas Paine

I have to believe that this country was founded on nothing to do at all with religion.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby dtp883 » Wed 19 Aug 2009 11:45 pm

The land that United States began on was literally found by Christians fleeing persecution in England and Europe. About a century later, or about three generations (a guess) is when the colonies became angered with taxes and revolted. After the Revolutionary War about three or four generations after the original immigrants plus waves of other immigrants at various times.

So, all that I'm saying is that Christians found the land but the founding fathers, whatever they were founded the country.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby ILuvEire » Thu 20 Aug 2009 1:31 am

I think that the Old Testament is much more interesting than the New Testament.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby dtp883 » Thu 20 Aug 2009 2:08 am

ILuvEire wrote:I think that the Old Testament is much more interesting than the New Testament.


It is.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby linguoboy » Thu 20 Aug 2009 2:16 am

dtp883 wrote:The land that United States began on was literally found by Christians fleeing persecution in England and Europe.

You know, that's funny, because the non-Christians who were living here then never reported it missing.
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Re: Polyglot Jesus

Postby formiko » Thu 20 Aug 2009 4:03 am

The OT was what the entire NT is based on. Jesus was a Jew and all the authors were Jewish, (besides Luke who was a Gentile convert) To understand Jesus, you have to understand the original story. Not knowing why the holy spirit is the Shekina glory of the Holy of Holies makes it hard to understand WHY he is so amazing. Knowing that the Jews had 345 (I think) laws to follow to the letter, shows how wonderful the Sermon on the Mount is and why they killed him. Jesus said multiple times that he was God in the Flesh. When they asked him who he was, he said "I am". That was the name God used for himself. That was pure blasphemy. So the Jews killed him, and he opened the door of salvation to the gentiles (the gentiles are anyone who is not Jewish). But Paul says "Gentiles were "grafted in to" the vine completely by His grace and only because the Jews rejected their Messiah. Christ became the vine because he was the only one to obey every commandment of God. (There are volumes of books explaining this Christology. They have entire forums just on this toic alone) But reading the OT with a Messianic viewpoint opens our eyes to a whole new world. Seeing the entire miracle of being led around the desert for 40 years with a flame during the night, and a cloud during the day, and being fed by Mannah every morning, gives the analogies and metaphors an entire new meaning. Christ is our Mannah, Christ is also the leading our souls. But we are nt born a Christian. We have to willfully come to Christ on our knees and repent. And we must repent daily. Why the NT is better for me, is the OT never had true forgiveness. All those thousands of years to prepare the way for the Messiah. If someone wants to truly understand the NT, read the books of Luke or John. They was written to both Gentiles and Jews. (Matthew was written mainly to Jews).

Then Jesus said,

“God blesses you who are poor,
for the Kingdom of God is yours.
God blesses you who are hungry now,
for you will be satisfied.
God blesses you who weep now,
for in due time you will laugh.

What blessings await you when people hate you and exclude you and mock you and curse you as evil because you follow me. When that happens, be happy! Yes, leap for joy! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, their ancestors treated the ancient prophets that same way.

“What sorrow awaits you who are rich,
for you have your only happiness now.
What sorrow awaits you who are fat and prosperous now,
for a time of awful hunger awaits you.
What sorrow awaits you who laugh now,
for your laughing will turn to mourning and sorrow.
What sorrow awaits you who are praised by the crowds,
for their ancestors also praised false prophets.

“But to you who are willing to listen, I say, love your enemies! Do good to those who hate you. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also. Give to anyone who asks; and when things are taken away from you, don’t try to get them back. Do to others as you would like them to do to you.

“If you love only those who love you, why should you get credit for that? Even sinners love those who love them! And if you do good only to those who do good to you, why should you get credit? Even sinners do that much! And if you lend money only to those who can repay you, why should you get credit? Even sinners will lend to other sinners for a full return.

“Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked. You must be compassionate, just as your Father is compassionate.
“Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven. Give, and you will receive. Your gift will return to you in full—pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, running over, and poured into your lap. The amount you give will determine the amount you get back.”

Then Jesus gave the following illustration: “Can one blind person lead another? Won’t they both fall into a ditch? Students are not greater than their teacher. But the student who is fully trained will become like the teacher.

“And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye[e] when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying, ‘Friend,let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

“A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. A tree is identified by its fruit. Figs are never gathered from thornbushes, and grapes are not picked from bramble bushes. A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.
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