Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby Delodephius » Thu 23 Apr 2009 11:34 pm

Latin i think is kinda hard, but other than that I disagree with it being a lingua franca because why does Europe have to have a lingua franca? Its not a unified country and we can already communicate in English...

It's not a unified country sure, but the communication between EU members costs translation. I'm not saying ordinary people should know Latin, ones that don't plan on travelling around the continent, but I'm suggesting a common language for the governments.

Plus, to a Slavic speaker like me Latin is quite easy. It has less cases and uses a largely phonetic orthography. I myself have hard time learning case-less languages. So you see, it is a matter of your linguistic origin and all sides cannot be satisfied. The protestant in me shouts to vote for the most profitable and practical solution. :lol:
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby Jayan » Thu 23 Apr 2009 11:39 pm

But Latin's pronunciation is so unwieldy. It would have to be modified for everyday use. And what about vocabulary?
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby Delodephius » Thu 23 Apr 2009 11:41 pm

And how did your native language came to have the adequate vocabulary that you seem to imply Latin lacks (which may be)?
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby Neqitan » Thu 23 Apr 2009 11:54 pm

On the topic of Wikipedia's reliability:
If it's so unreliable, give some concrete examples then: non-politics related statements that you know are untrue by whatever source (topics on political issues are usually editing wars).
On the topic of Latin:
If you two know so much about Latin, why don't you start talking it in this thread now? You know, to start this whole Latin revival movement going. :D
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby philly_boy » Fri 24 Apr 2009 12:06 am

Wikipedia:
Alexander the Great's full title was 'Alexander the III, Basileus of Macedonia, Hegemon of the Hellenic League, Pharaoh of Egypt, Shahanshah of Persia'. On the Macedonian page it only says 'Alexander the III, Basileus of Macedonia, Pharaoh of Egypt and Shahanshah of Persia'. Therefore, someone is trying to hide something (they are not lying, they are just missing part of the truth ;)) in connection with the naming dispute with Greece. There you go, an example of how wikipedia is not reliable :) You can check it out yourself. And here I am, wanting to add 'hegemon of the Hellenic League' to his title. But guess what - the page is locked!

Latin:
I believe English should be the lingua franca: it has many loan words from most of Europe's major languages and not-so-important languages, including my own. Latin is an entirely different language that no one would speak in everyday-life if it became lingua franca. It is by far too complicated and sophisticated.
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby Delodephius » Fri 24 Apr 2009 12:16 am

First of all, it shouldn't be an everyday language. We have our own native everyday languages. It would be a language inter-government communication, language of business and trade. And it is simple and elegant.
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby philly_boy » Fri 24 Apr 2009 12:21 am

I don't see why that would be so. It was lingua-franca for many decades and it slowly got abandoned...
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby Neqitan » Fri 24 Apr 2009 12:38 am

Wikipedia:
In the old forum we also a had a thread discussing the reliability of Wikipedia by chris (and it was NOT off-topic). And Talib coined the phrase "take it with a grain of salt". If you don't trust Wikipedia that's fine, but be aware you might be missing some good information. :twisted:

Philly Boy, your post actually reminded me something: In the article about Old Spanish in the Spanish Wikipedia, it says that its name was Román Paladino in its time... And it was not! That was actually a generic term used for the different Romance speeches of that time.

Overall, the articles in other languages' Wikipedias tend to be not so good... With the exception of the German Wikipedia. Local topics attached to the language's culture in question are always better and that's expectable, but not so for the rest of general and not culturally-attached topics.

Latin & English:
I believe English should be the lingua franca: it has many loan words from most of Europe's major languages and not-so-important languages

It was mostly Old French and Latin actually, and for the others it was just a small handful of words that aren't really worthy of mention for the speakers of such languages.
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby Delodephius » Fri 24 Apr 2009 12:47 am

philly_boy wrote:I don't see why that would be so. It was lingua-franca for many decades and it slowly got abandoned...

It was abandoned because of nationalistic reasons actually. It started about the time of the French revolution and the national awakening. Latin was the lingua franca of the elite, of the scholars and the clergy, since these groups used the written language the most. Once lower classes got access to writing on a larger scale regional languages demanded equal rights. And so Latin lost favour. I hope we now live in a de-nationalistic period. The EU needs a common language. It would be a huge step towards solidifying the Union. No one will be forced to abandon their national language, I will never abandon mine and I'll even teach my children only the dialect I was taught. But the economy, the politics, the military, these institutions require a common language. One that is efficient. English is limited to Latin I would say, but that is my bias.
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Re: Should we try for more cases like Hebrew?

Postby philly_boy » Fri 24 Apr 2009 1:06 am

I'm against solidifying the Union, to be honest. We need to preserve our national identity and if the Union starts solidifying, national identity will be lost. First the common constitution, then a common language for the Union, then what? European superstate? :P

I think English suffices when it comes to commerce and international relations. Its vocabulary is vast and i don't think there is a problem with the English language as a lingua franca in the world nowadays. It would be better if we had to learn an easy language (English) rather than a harder language (Latin). After all, it would always be our Second language, not our first language. I go for simplicity rather than complexity when it comes to a lingua franca.
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