I say Latin, because when most people hear "Latin", they think Classical Latin. It's the only one they know.
You know, I'm not so sure of this. I think most people are more familiar with Medieval Latin than CL, aren't they? I for one only learned anything about CL pronunciation after I started my lessons in it, and I don't think I'm an especially atypical sample. But you may have something else in mind when you say 'CL'.
For linguistic people, I suppose I should be more specific. I tend to write for the layman a lot, so do forgive me for this.
Like I said, I did notice afterwards that a lot of my vowels ended up very English-y. Any derivations from actual Latin pronunciation are probably an artifact of my own personal pronunciation of words.
I find it interesting that you construct your phonology largely according to how you end up pronouncing things rather than doing it the other way round. If I took that approach, I'd end up with all sorts of ridiculous constraints such as no voiced stops permitted in initial position (which I suspect may also be a rule of Solmeia, since you're also a native English speaker). I do try to fit phonologies to what I can actually produce, but there is a certain limit and I don't like to have to play by it.
I would agree with the origin assessment.
What do you mean?
I have a little trouble with differentiating vowels sometimes, so these might not be 100% accurate. As for <ae>... Well... I didn't go over diphthongs for a reason. I haven't entirely sorted them out yet. Right now, that group would be pronounced [eɪ], but that's too English-y for me and I kind of want to change it.
[eɪ], [e:] or [ɛ] would be fine for <ae>.
No worries! I do believe we've been over this before though.
To me, however, the distinction between phones and phonemes isn't exactly 100% clear. I get mixed up sometimes, so I've just been using [ ] for dialectial pronunciation (except where I forget, which I obviously did here) and / / for everything else. I'm still working on it!
I see. I'm not especially clear on phones vs. phonemes myself, but I'll try to explain if you don't mind.
If two sounds contrast, they are phonemes and would be represented differently inside slashes. If they do not contrast, they are phones and represented the same inside slashes and differently in brackets. For example, suppose you have a language with the three vowel phonemes /a i u/. They are realized respectively as [ɑ e o] when following the consonant /q/, but as [a i u] elsewhere. Let's say we have two words, /aku/ and /aqu/. They would be realized as [aku] and [aqo] according to the rules we've just set up. It might seem like [o] and [u] contrast, but what actually contrasts is the consonant because *[ako] and *[aqu] do not occur.
Did that make sense?
I know this. I took some inspiration from modern Italian and Spanish here.
Good, so we've got that established.
I have no idea what the schwa is doing in there either.
To be fairly honest, I stuck it in there because I wasn't completely sure what vowel sound I was making and that appeared to be closest. I'm thinking about it again, however, and found some cases where that rule isn't followed. Probably best to replace the [ə] with a [ɛ].
If you want to you should.
I think it's a fair assumption to say that <h> became <s> in most cases for Classical Latin.
I don't understand. Do you mean that <h> became <s> in
CL or in words derived
from it? Either way, /h/ > /s/ is a strange sound change as it usually goes the other way. (I'm not conflating spelling with pronunciation, I'm just inferring pronunciation from spelling.)
This is part of the alphabet in Solmeia, though its usage is rare. It is used only when needing a /k/ preceeding an <e> or <i>.
I see. Just like Brithenig.
As previously mentioned, I'm still working on the differentiation between [ ] and / /. I'll get there. As for the actual question itself... I don't know how to answer it. Could you perhaps explain what you mean a little more clearly? Like, how is it weird? Given that in Solmeia it is [ˈɒk.ta] and not [ˈok.ta]... Well, yeah. I don't have every word in the language transcribed into IPA, so some of my rules might be not-so-accurate. I also don't know what you mean by [E] and [O].
I'm sorry. I wasn't very clear, was I? Let me try to explain better.
By [E] and [O] I meant [ɛ] and [ɔ].
[ɛ ɔ ɪ ʊ] (not sure why I put them in brackets) are generally considered lax
vowels as opposed to [e o i u] which are tense
. This basically means that the tongue is higher for the latter set and the former are lower and more central. Said lax vowels are often unstressed or "short" allophones of the tense vowels, but in Solmeia they are stressed allophones instead. Similarly, [ɐ] tends to be an unstressed allophone of /a/.
As for the last thing I said, my point was that it's a little strange to have [ɛ] as the allophone of /e/ but [ɒ] rather than [ɔ] as the allophone of /o/. Either it's strange or it's Englishy.
I screwed up the description of that rule a little bit. Yes, <qu> is [kju] when final, but it also occurs in other places. For example, <qul> is [kjul] and not [kwul].
Okay, makes sense up to here.
If there was a vowel following the <u>, such as in <qual> it becomes [kwual] rather than [kjual].
But why isn't it [kwal]? Is <qu> never [kw]?
<q> on its own is [k] or [g]; it was adapted this way for loanwords, but is sometimes used as a replacement for k or g. For the most part, it becomes a g if followed by an <o>.
I see. Why does /o/ turn <q> into [g]?
Is that sarcasm? You're joking, right? [ɹ] is incredibly easy to pronounce.
I'm deadly serious.
Difficulties in acquisition
The alveolar /ɹ/ is among the last of the phonemes to develop normally, and is also one of the most commonly misarticulated sounds due to its difficult pronunciation and similarities to other sounds. The nature of the sound’s production requires the speaker to manipulate different parts of the tongue, lips, and pharyngeal wall in relation to the palate making it more complex than most English sounds. In addition, the subtle contrast between /ɹ/ and /w/ may be difficult for children to differentiate in adult speech. As the English alveolar approximant sound has various contributing articulations that are not often audible or obvious, articulatory-delayed children and children with hearing loss often have difficulty acquiring it.
For people like you and me of course /ɹ/ is easy, but that's only
because we've been pronouncing it our whole lives. Non-natives and young children have significantly more trouble. I personally know an almost-seven-year-old who almost always realizes /ɹ/ as [w], just for one example.
Basically, it's used when a word becomes too difficult to articulate. For the average Solmeian speaker, I imagine this would be whenever <r> is part of a consonant cluster. On its own it becomes [r]. This is not always the case though. I don't have a solid rule for when which is used; I might not ever, besides a pronunciation guide for individual words.
Since /ɹ/ is in general more difficult to pronounce than /r/ (I think -- correct me if I'm wrong), and they're both relatively difficult sounds, I'd not expect the rule to be as you've described it.
I haven't solidified this yet. At the moment, I have a secondary (tentative) rule that the stress is on the second to last syllable of the root and not the actual word. Hence, <benedo> would become [ˈbɛ.nə.do] and not [bə.ˈnɛ.do].
Sounds good to me. Can the last syllable ever be stressed? It looks like it can't.
At any rate, thanks for the input!
No problem. My pleasure.
Thanks for the conlang.
I always enjoy your input! You have a knack for pointing out inconsistencies that I otherwise would have overlooked.
It makes me think about my conlang!