tollir or leeir

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tollir or leeir

Postby Tovel » Tue 19 Jun 2012 7:05 pm

I'm going to present my own language, it's called leeir (the silence language) or, despectively, tollir (the thiefs' language). It hasn't been made to be spoken, it's only for my pleasure (you'll understand why).

I'll start with the phonology. The main aspect is that all sounds are voiceless (you speak like whispering), the language name is bacause of it.
The consonants are:
hf --- ɸ (it's like the Japanese fu, it's a bilabial f)
f --- f (it's the same than in Enlish)
th --- θ (the same than in English wen it's voiceless, like in thousand)
s --- s (it's pronounced as in English)
x --- ʃ (English "sh")
z --- ʂ (it's like an "s" but with the tongue moved back a little)
kh --- x (Castilian j)
qh --- χ (French r without trill and voiceless)
H --- ħ (Hebrew ḥet)
hl --- ɬ (Welsh ll)
l --- ɭ˔̊ (a voiceless l pronounced in the same place than Catalan or Russian)
ly --- ʎ̥˔ (Catalan or Castilian ll but voiceless)
m --- m̥ (a voiceless m)
n --- n̥ (a voiceless n)
ng --- ŋ̊ (like an "n" before g or k, like singing, but voiceless)
t --- t (English t)
r --- ɾ (it's like Catalan or Castilian r, but voiceless)

Some consonants also can be long (but not all)

The vowels:
a --- a (voiceless Spanish a)
i --- i (voiceless Catalan or Japanese i)
u --- u (voiceless Russian y or Castilian u)
é --- e (voiceless Latin e)
o --- o (voiceless Euskara or French o)
è --- ɛ (voiceless Catalan e in treure or English bed)
e --- ə (voiceless Catalan e or a, caure)
ò --- ɔ (voicelss Catalan o in ploure, or in American English dog)
û --- y (voiceless French u)

Vowels can be long or aspirated. Aspirated ones are pronounces like you pronounce the vowel normally but pronouncing kh at the same time keeping the vowel position of the tongue.

Finally, almost all the words have the stress on the antepenultimate syllable (there are some regular exceptions, but I'll explain them later)

In a future I want to evolve from it a voiced language. I'll post more about the grammar soon.
Native: Català
Prefectly: Castellano
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Tikolm » Tue 19 Jun 2012 11:37 pm

Tovel, I wish you luck getting replies. No one but me has ever been on here lately as far as posts go! :lol: (I'm not laughing at you. :))
More to the point, it's really interesting and cool that you've invented a voiceless language. It begs the question, is it possible that there is such a language out there? It seems plausible enough to me, but I've never heard of any such language.
I'll be watching this thread for more on your conlang! :D In fact, a conlang this interesting should surely garner interest.
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Fluent: français
Basic: Cymraeg
Really basic: Español, lingua latīna
Conlangs (current): tikolmil, llyffws, Arliks, dilir
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Dan_ad_nauseam » Wed 20 Jun 2012 5:12 am

The voiced/voiceless distinction is most prominent in IE languages, but you've come up with an interesting fricative-rich set of phonemes. I'd try to find languages with similar fricative inventories to try to work out strategies to ensure sufficient distinction.
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Tovel » Wed 20 Jun 2012 10:50 pm

Tollir is a derivating language. It has 14 cases and 5 declensions.
1st: It includes feminine nouns mainly.
2nd: It have a neuter state gender (it's diferent than neuter gender), it's used for words that designate something that can be feminine or masculine, but yo don't specify it (for example the name of an animal or some jobs, the jobs that don't use the 2nd declesion use the 4th), it's also used with adjectives when they don't describe any specific noun.
3rd: Almoust all the nouns are masculine.
4th: There are masculine and feminine nouns.
5th: It includes neuter nouns which, generally, are abstract.

Cases:
Nominative absolutive: It's used as the subject (in intransitive sentences) or the atribute fuction
Nominative ergative: It's used as the subject (in tansitive sentences) or the predicative complement function.
Acusative: Direct complement
Dative: Indirect complement
Genitive possessive: To denote possession (with people or animals)
Genitive locative: To denote situation, origin or that is part of a group
Alative: You use it when you say where you go (Catalan or Castilian "a" or French "à") (for example, "I go to London")
Terminal alative: To say the final point, until (in French, jusqu'à, Spanish, hasta, Catalan, fins a)
Adlative:towards, the direction (hacia, cap a)
Ablative: from, since, the origin of an action.
Associative: To denote by who the subject is accompanied during the action. (French, avec, Castilian, con, Catalan amb)
Instumental: by means of, to say the mean you use to achive something.
Inesive: The place where something happens or where something is.
Vocative: To attract attention.

Terminations:
Declinacions.jpg
Declinacions.jpg (58.91 KiB) Viewed 4002 times

The leters betwen brackets are used when the root finishes in consonant. The terminations that are in brackets are there to show that have a relation with the same ones in the other declesions (they never are used).
Edit:Adjectives in 2nd declesion have some diferent terminations:
Sg Pl
NA -z/-òn/-ir -zu/-òngqh/-iri
NE -zè/-òngè/-irè -zèx/-ògnèx/-irèx
Voc -zu/òn/-irè -zèx/-òngè/-irèx


The other numbers (partitive, dual and groupal (for natural groups), originally, trial) are made adding suffixes to the plural form:
Partitive: -a (from ûza that's only used in the partitive 3rd person pronoun, xûza)
Dual: -i (from rètti, from rèz (two))
Groupal: -èi (from hleettèi, from hleez (three))
Native: Català
Prefectly: Castellano
I can defend me: English, Français
I have some knowledge and learning: lingua latina, русский язык, 日本語, עִבְרִית, Cymraeg.
Own: tollir
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Tikolm » Wed 20 Jun 2012 11:46 pm

I like all the cases. :) It's especially interesting that Tollir has both the nominative/accusative and ergative/absolutive systems incorporated into one set of cases. Just goes to show you don't have to have just one system or the other! This conlang is looking more and more interesting.
I don't understand why you say the vocative is to attract attention, though. In languages that have it, at least the ones I've heard of, the vocative case is used when you're speaking to someone or something. Is this what you meant by attracting attention? If not, a more detailed explanation might be in order, because I'd love to know exactly what you mean.
Native: English
Fluent: français
Basic: Cymraeg
Really basic: Español, lingua latīna
Conlangs (current): tikolmil, llyffws, Arliks, dilir
(Website is at http://risteq.net/ if you ever want to visit. It's supposed to be in 4 languages.)
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Tovel » Thu 21 Jun 2012 10:11 am

The vocative is used like the other languages that have it, for example, Latin.

When you're using it, you attract the attention of who or what your are speaking to. For example, if you are speaking to John you can say: "Give me this" or, if you want to specify that you're speaking to him, attracting his attention, you say: "John, give me this". It's the fatic function. The vocative indicates the party who is being addressed.

I think it's how it's used in the other languages and I expect that I have clarified it.
Native: Català
Prefectly: Castellano
I can defend me: English, Français
I have some knowledge and learning: lingua latina, русский язык, 日本語, עִבְרִית, Cymraeg.
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Tikolm » Thu 21 Jun 2012 8:05 pm

Tovel wrote:The vocative is used like the other languages that have it, for example, Latin.

When you're using it, you attract the attention of who or what your are speaking to. For example, if you are speaking to John you can say: "Give me this" or, if you want to specify that you're speaking to him, attracting his attention, you say: "John, give me this". It's the fatic function. The vocative indicates the party who is being addressed.

I think it's how it's used in the other languages and I expect that I have clarified it.

Thank you for the clarification. :)
Native: English
Fluent: français
Basic: Cymraeg
Really basic: Español, lingua latīna
Conlangs (current): tikolmil, llyffws, Arliks, dilir
(Website is at http://risteq.net/ if you ever want to visit. It's supposed to be in 4 languages.)
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Tovel » Wed 18 Jul 2012 4:34 pm

I haven't posted for over a month, but today I go on with the pronouns. The pronominal system is quite complex.

First, I'm gonna explain the different types of numbers:
Singular and plural (the same that Enlish ones)
Dual: For 2 membre groups
Groupal: For natural groups (for example, the months would be in these number meaning 12 monts)
Partitive: For groups whose number isn't specified or uncountable nouns whose quantity's not specified.

These are the abreviations which can cause confusion:
Resp: Respect
Fam: Familiarity
NS: Neuter state
Incl: Inclusive
Excl: Exclusive
AN: Absolutive Nominative
EN: Ergative Nominative
Pronoms+.jpg
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The first 2 grids belong to the Absolutive Nominative, the last one shows the whole pronouns' system.

If there's any doubt, ask.
Native: Català
Prefectly: Castellano
I can defend me: English, Français
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Tovel » Wed 18 Jul 2012 5:40 pm

I forgot the place pronouns:
Pronoms1.jpg
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Native: Català
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I can defend me: English, Français
I have some knowledge and learning: lingua latina, русский язык, 日本語, עִבְרִית, Cymraeg.
Own: tollir
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Re: tollir or leeir

Postby Tovel » Wed 18 Jul 2012 7:41 pm

I'm going to post the verbs system, it's quite extensive and complex.
To do the present (Indicative) I've inspired me with the euskara, where each complement (Subject, DO and IO) has a respresentation in the verb form. The Direct Object affixes go first, then go the Subject affixes used when there is Indirect Complement, next, the root (inf. without -ri/-hli), and finally, the affixes used by the Subject when there's not IC or by the IC.

DO-root-S / DO-S-root-IC

There are 2 regular conjugtions: these verbs whose infinitive finishes in -ri, and these ones whose infinitive finishes in -hli (ans some others whose infinitive finishes in -hlli).

Tenses uses:
Present: it's the equivalent of the present simple and, almost always, the present continuos.
Present continuous: it's hardly ever used, it's a very learned.
Conditional and conditional perfect: They are used in the same way that they're used in English.
Past Indefinite: it's for actions that happen in the past and the moment is unknown (but it's not far-off times) or you know the specific moment but it's not recent (for example, with expresions like last year, las week, 10 years ago, in 1995...).
Close past: It's for recent actions and events (it's nearly the same use as the present perfect) (it's used with expresions like this morning, today, this year...)
Far-off times past: It's used when you speak about events occured in an imprecise time (i.e. once upon a time, houndreds and houndreds of years ago...)
Future: It's equivalent to the future with going to and the present continuous used as future.
Past Imperfect of subjunctive (Imp. Subj.): -It's used in the 2nd conditional.
-With subordinate sentences with need, demand, mandate, advice, emotion, fear and doubt verbs, expresions with the same meaning, and expreasions that mean possibility (i.e. possibly, "it's possible that...", "as if"), in past, demanding, advising... something in an unfinished way.
Past Plusquamperfect of subjuctive (Plusquamp. Subj.): -It's used in the 3rd conditional.
-With subordinate sentences with need, demand, mandate, advice, emotion, fear and doubt verbs, expresions with the same meaning, and expreasions that mean possibility (i.e. possibly, "it's possible that...", "as if"), in past, demanding, advising... something in an finished way.
Present of Subjunctive (Pr. Subj.): -With subordinate sentences with need, demand, mandate, advice, emotion, fear and doubt verbs, expresions with the same meaning, and expreasions that mean possibility (i.e. possibly, "it's possible that...", "as if"), in present, future or conditional, demanding, advising... something in an unfinished way.
Perfect of subjuntive(Perf. Subj.) -With subordinate sentences with need, demand, mandate, advice, emotion, fear and doubt verbs, expresions with the same meaning, and expreasions that mean possibility (i.e. possibly, "it's possible that...", "as if"), in present, future or conditional, demanding, advising... something in an finished way.
Imperative: As in English.
Deprecative: To beg.
Optative: It's used in the same way that the imperative and the desprecative, but meaning "I wish that you/he/she/we..."

The negations has ben added here because it's shown in the verb form. It's written after the tens and person affixes.

The uses of the subjunctive aren't still confirmed.

The points that are in some forms are used to separate the digrafs that could be confused.

Verbs Eng1+.jpg
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Verbs Eng2+.jpg
Verbs Eng2+.jpg (57.64 KiB) Viewed 3859 times

Sorry for the post length.
Native: Català
Prefectly: Castellano
I can defend me: English, Français
I have some knowledge and learning: lingua latina, русский язык, 日本語, עִבְרִית, Cymraeg.
Own: tollir
Tovel
 
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