KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang

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Re: KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang

Postby VROOR » Wed 11 Nov 2009 1:41 pm

Sean of the Dead wrote:Awesome! I just started learning Manchu a couple days ago, what a coincidence.


True coincidences are rare but, this is Karažun of which appears Manchu, yet not Manchurian itself. Since the Manchu Script adopted by Karažun is called "karažun i manžu bithum", there is indeed a certain coincidence, between the time of introducing Karažun here and your studying of the Manchu language.

Sean of the Dead wrote:I totally love the script, it's beautiful.


In my personal own taste also, indeed the Manchurian Script is lovely (so is the Traditional Mongolian Script as well as the Old Uyghur Script). However, every language's writing system (be it natural or artificial) has its own charms and beauty.

Sean of the Dead wrote:Do you know any Manchu?


Yes, I do.
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Re: KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang

Postby Sean of the Dead » Thu 12 Nov 2009 12:34 am

Well, how much do you know? :P
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Re: KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang

Postby Sobekhotep » Thu 12 Nov 2009 1:02 am

Talib wrote:I have two questions regarding that: 1) how does one go about learning Manchu and 2) why learn a language nobody speaks.

I also studied a bit of Manchu earlier this year. The reason why I quit was because of the point you brought up: (almost) nobody speaks it. :cry:
If the Manchu community were to overwhelmingly begin trying to revive their language & if they either adopted a new orthography (I just don't think vertical scripts will work on the Internet) I may return to learning it.
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Re: KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang

Postby Talib » Thu 12 Nov 2009 2:50 am

Sean of the Dead said (we were carrying on the conversation by private message) that Manchu can also be written left-to-right, and fonts for it exist.

But unless I were trying to revive it, I wouldn't study a moribund language.
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A WARNING TO THREAD HIJACKS

Postby VROOR » Thu 12 Nov 2009 3:30 am

This thread is about the Karažun language, it is not for the discussion and debates of the Manchu language (of which is off-topic). This thread has nothing to do with the Manchu language, nor does it remotely or indirectly refer the Manchu language.

To claim that, the Karažun language allows the discussion of the Manchu language because "karažun i manžu bithum" appears to be the Manchurian Script and, the Karažun Vocabulary possesses words originated from Manchu language, this is a mockery to the Karažun language.

One would not discuss Latin inside a thread meant for the English language. Despite English is written in the "Latin Alphabet" and, despite English does possess words originated from Latin, English is not Latin. Thus, Karažun is not Manchurian, nor vice-versa. Please stop hijacking my thread's original topic; thank you.
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Re: KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang

Postby Sobekhotep » Fri 13 Nov 2009 1:12 am

Talib wrote:Sean of the Dead said (we were carrying on the conversation by private message) that Manchu can also be written left-to-right, and fonts for it exist.

That's true, but writing it horizontally like that is improper and is only done because there's no vertical support for it on the net.

VROOR wrote:This thread has nothing to do with the Manchu language, nor does it remotely or indirectly refer the Manchu language.

:roll:
That's funny, because the title of this (your) thread is "KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang". Also, check out your own post:

VROOR wrote:Unfortunately, despite the Karažun language does write in the Manchurian script, it is really not possible to make Karažun to sound exactly like the authentic Manchurian language. It appears to be Manchurian in writing but, those fluent in the Manchu language will not be able to understand it.

The main linguistic resources for the creation of Karažun are, the Tungusic (Orochen, Manchu, Sibe...etc.)

So, it looks like you did reference the Manchu language after all. So, the posts about the Manchu language are not so off topic, are they? :roll:
But, it's your thread and if you don't want us discussing Manchu then fine. I'm gone.
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Re: KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang

Postby Serali » Sun 15 Nov 2009 7:08 am

This is amazing.

I love love LOVE the script. Is there a chart of the entire script? I would like to see it. I love vertical scripts to death and have made many.

But this is beautiful. Hope you post more.

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Thread Dead

Postby VROOR » Sun 15 Nov 2009 1:12 pm

Serali wrote:I love love LOVE the script. Is there a chart of the entire script? I would like to see it. I love vertical scripts to death and have made many.But this is beautiful. Hope you post more.


Please consider this thread dead. I am no-longer motivated to share or discuss anything about Karažun after this thread's tidiness and goal were ruined by off-topic discussions.
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Re: KARAŽUN - A Pseudo-Manchu Conlang

Postby Serali » Sun 15 Nov 2009 7:36 pm

But that shouldn't stop you from sharing your language with us. If you honestly didn't want any "off topic" discussions on this thread you should've said so in the first post.

But since you did mention the Manchu language I think you should've realized that someone was going to bring it up and discuss it. But doing so wouldn't ruin the thread. All you had to do was to say that you didn't want to discuss it and go on with posting about Karažun.

I thought it was amazing to see such a language in the works because I don't think ( AFAIK ) something like this has been done before.

I'm interested in seeing the rest of this. Please reconsider. It's not fair to deny people who come across this thread from learning about this language.

Also I think you should submit the script to Omniglot. It's beautiful.

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To: Serali

Postby VROOR » Mon 16 Nov 2009 10:46 am

Serali wrote:If you honestly didn't want any "off topic" discussions on this thread you should've said so in the first post.


It is an issue of my own that I have overlooked and, I am not blaming anyone but myself; nevertheless, this problem with myself is causing me issues with this thread's tidiness as it has two topics instead of the originally intented one.

Serali wrote:But since you did mention the Manchu language I think you should've realized that someone was going to bring it up and discuss it.


The references to the term Manchu is only in Pseudo-Manchu which means it is not Manchurian, and in the linguistical sources of which is no different from English has Latin words (but English is not Latin).

Serali wrote:All you had to do was to say that you didn't want to discuss it and go on with posting about Karažun.


I did post a message that, this thread is about Karažun and, not Manchurian. It is just I have lost my motivations of which, I have to find them back one way or another.

Serali wrote:I thought it was amazing to see such a language in the works because I don't think ( AFAIK ) something like this has been done before.


Thank you for the compliment and support.

Serali wrote:I'm interested in seeing the rest of this. Please reconsider. It's not fair to deny people who come across this thread from learning about this language.


I am not denying anyone access to know Karažun, nor have I gave-up on it. I just need to regain my motivations for presenting it here. It is not easy for me to bear when my first attempt in sharing ended up like this. Thus, for now, consider this thread dead. When I have regained my motivations, I will continue to share (perhaps, in a new thread with a better title and, more clearer messages on what to discuss).

Serali wrote:Also I think you should submit the script to Omniglot. It's beautiful.


Karažun uses the same, although simplified, script as the Manchurian use. I can make a script-chart image of the "karažun i manžu bithum" but, I thought the FAQ stated that only those which interests the founder of Omniglot will be posted on the Omniglot, the rest will remain as they are.

Since I have not yet received any hint that, Karažun is of any interests to the founder of Omniglot, I am not sure making a script-chart will actually be posted on the Omniglot. Besides, it is just an adoptation of the Manchurian Script.
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