Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Talib » Tue 16 Jun 2009 9:46 pm

Delodephius wrote:If it was only a language policy. Language rights abuse is only a small portion of the problem. Things like genocide over Macedonians and Turks and the brutal Hellenisation is also just a part of the problem. Think of all the problems together, don't isolate them and say they are not a big deal.
Are they currently committing genocide against the Macedonians and Turks or are you talking about events decades ago.

How is it "brutal Hellenisation"? Do they track down and arrest anyone who doesn't speak Greek?
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Delodephius » Tue 16 Jun 2009 10:17 pm

How is it "brutal Hellenisation"? Do they track down and arrest anyone who doesn't speak Greek?

Well, if you happen to pass trough a Greek village and speak for example Macedonian, Vlach and Turkish, there is a chance you would be escorted by the police to the station and your anything you confiscated that the police would label "as a threat to the state", even if it is just for example a book in the aforementioned languages or a photo-camera.
In the past, and some say even today, if Macedonian or Turkish children accidentally say something in their native tongue in school teachers would wash their mouths with castor oil or send them to the corner. In the past, some 40-30 years ago children would also get some good ass-whipping on top of that.
Stoning and vandalizing of property is not uncommon. Neo-Nazi activity is tolerated by the police and the police themselves commit crimes against members of other nationalities, like when they shot the guard in the US embassy in Athens. When members of ethnic minorities are being beaten by Greek mobs, the police usually just stand around and then threatens the victim for causing trouble. Several such incidents happened in the last few years. And lets not forget Greek Orthodox clergy constantly calling for wars against Macedonia, Bulgaria and Turkey. They would also call against Albanians but these make a half of Greece's population. Most Greeks speak anything but Greek at home. Greeks have many complexes and their government of course uses them for itd own gain.
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Talib » Wed 17 Jun 2009 12:05 am

I seriously doubt things like that happen with regularity, that they're state-sanctioned and most of that things which happened 40 years ago are still common.

Also that "most Greeks speak anything but Greek at home". According to Wikipedia, 94% of Greek citizens are ethnic Greeks and 99% speak some form of the Greek language. Granted, that's Wikipedia. Can you produce better statistics?
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Delodephius » Wed 17 Jun 2009 12:33 am

If you would take a look at the CIA - The World Factbook:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/GR.html

Under People > Ethnic groups, it says the following:
population: Greek 93%, other (foreign citizens) 7% (2001 census)
note: percents represent citizenship, since Greece does not collect data on ethnicity


And of course all citizens of Greece speak Greek:
Greek 99% (official), other 1% (includes English and French)


Greeks can easily claim there are no ethnic minorities inside their borders and that all citizens of Greece are Greeks by genus as they claim, because they never even tried to determine if they had other ethnic group inside their borders or that people speak other languages than Greek. They just collect the data of how many people in Greece have citizenship and can communicate in Greek. Even the Turkish minority is registered as the Muslim minority since data on religion is (partly) collected.

Recently the UN Independent Expert on Minority Issues visited Greece and the areas where the ethnic minorities form the majority, like Thrace and Aegean Macedonia. She of course found out the true situation and wrote it down in the report. This then causes an uproar in the Greek media and the general populace.

You can read about it here:
http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&cid=3423

The whole site has a lot of valuable information:
http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&ctg=202
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Talib » Wed 17 Jun 2009 12:49 am

That Greece doesn't appear to accommodate its ethnic minorities I can agree with, but the claim that the state pursues an active policy of cultural genocide and language suppression is a lot harder to qualify. If Greece doesn't collect data on ethnicity and minority languages, how can we know what the facts are? How too can we know how frequently abuses occur? I hope the report you provided tells me more, because I'm going to read it in a bit.
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Delodephius » Wed 17 Jun 2009 1:22 am

If Greece doesn't collect data on ethnicity and minority languages, how can we know what the facts are? How too can we know how frequently abuses occur?


We can only look to non-profit non-governmental organizations, provided they are unbiased. Or, go over there and explore the whole thing first handedly.

And even if Greece did collect data on ethnicity and minority languages, how would we know those are actual facts and not what they want us to see? Balkanians don't have respect for others, don't expect them to be honest with you, ever.
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby dtp883 » Thu 18 Jun 2009 11:58 am

Delodephius, How does Greece view people who speak English?
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Delodephius » Thu 18 Jun 2009 2:36 pm

With contempt, just like any other Balkan country. Although Greeks have a particular dislike for Americans. The US embassy in Athens is vandalized at least once a week. But if you come as a tourist they'll behave to you like you're their best friends, since you brought money.

In the Balkan most stereotypes are true I'm afraid. I tried to think differently, but experience has taught me a lesson and I won't make the same mistake again.
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Sobekhotep » Thu 18 Jun 2009 9:27 pm

Delodephius wrote:Greeks have a particular dislike for Americans. The US embassy in Athens is vandalized at least once a week.

Why? What did we ever do to them? :?
We dropped 2 atomic bombs on Japan but they mostly love us.
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Re: Greece, a perfect example of barbaric country?

Postby Delodephius » Thu 18 Jun 2009 11:52 pm

Go on and ask them. I don't know why, but both the extreme left and the extreme right hate the USA.
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