Comments on: Irreversible binomials

by: VV

Thu, 15 May 2008 06:41:08 +0000

There are many “irreversible binomials” in Armenian, similar to “bread and butter”, etc. Always “u” is used for “and”, never - “ev” (both mean “and”). Here some interesting ones:
Sar u dzor - Mountain and canyon (never - “Ler”, which is another word for “Mountain”).
Shun u katu - Dog and cat (for people who do not get along)
Kartj u konkret - Short and concrete
Kitch te shat - Less or more
Amar dzymer - Summer winter (meaning, “all year long”)

Some Russian:
Khudo bedno - Thinly poorly
Khleb i sol’ - Bread and salt
Khleb s maslom - Bread with butter
Polya luga - Fields meadows

by: Peter J. Franke

Wed, 14 May 2008 12:26:03 +0000

“Ida y vuelta” (Castilliano) ( to go and come back, but you also have to say this when you want a return ticket.

by: Alessandro Delgado

Sat, 10 May 2008 21:03:08 +0000

@LandTortoise

In Portuguese, you’ll say “Preto e Branco” (Black and white) also.

@@man

Also in Portuguese, you’ll hear “mais ou menos” (More or less). And in French, there is also que equivalent expression “Plus ou moin”, never “Moin ou plus”.

by: Daydreamer

Sat, 10 May 2008 00:48:43 +0000

To describe a chaotic situation you would use “drunter und drüber” (upside down) in German. The reference to “Sodom and Gomorrha” should be known in many languages and even the Hebrew “Tohu wa Bohu” would qualify for this category, wouldn’t it?

by: @man

Fri, 09 May 2008 18:14:08 +0000

In Spanish: mas o menos (”more or less”, also irreversible in English, and in French: comme ci comme ça, lit. translated “like this, like that” and used similarly.)

In American English, “red, white and blue” is an irreversible trinomial, referring to the colors of the flag. If one were to say “I love the white, blue and red!” no one would take it as an expression of patriotism…

Another English trinomial that comes to mind is “Hip hip hooray!” although it’s an odd one, with a doubled word and no real semantic content. One would never say “Hip hooray hip!” but “hip” has a different meaning on its own and “hooray” works on its own to convey a briefer and less enthusiastic version of the same sentiment.

No real q

by: LandTortoise

Fri, 09 May 2008 17:11:43 +0000

English: black and white (as in photos)
Spanish: blanco y negro (white and black).

by: Dreaminjosh

Fri, 09 May 2008 16:58:09 +0000

@ DA

Here in the states, we always describe hair as “Salt-and-pepper”- never “Pepper-and-salt”.

by: Cakra

Fri, 09 May 2008 15:06:36 +0000

I’m not sure if these are irreversible binomials, as the word ‘and’ is always omitted. ‘ช้อนส้อม’ (chon som) means spoon (and) fork and nobody says ’somchon’. ‘ข้าวแกง’ (khao kaeng) means rice (and or with) curry. The dish looks like what it is called.

‘พริกกับเกลือ’ (phrik kap kluea), literally means chilli and salt, is mixture of chilli, salt and sugar. It is some kind of dip to be eaten with fruits. This may be real irreversible binomial in Thai.

by: DA

Fri, 09 May 2008 09:58:29 +0000

In English, Salt and Pepper. Neighbouring Welsh say pepper and salt (pupur a halen), the other way around. Reversing them in Welsh would need a mutation on pupur (halen a phupur), and that order is becoming the preferred order for people who have learnt fluent Welsh in school, without any Welsh being spoken in the home, so they are translating the English word order.
Interesting that in English, Pepper-and-salt is the correct order for describing the colour of hair or cloth.

by: Lev

Fri, 09 May 2008 08:27:01 +0000

In Hebrew, when buying food in a pita, the seller will ask you: Hummus, chips (French fries), salat (salad)? This is an unpermutable trinomial, though actually the salad is put in before the chips. I think the order is due to rhytm (in “salat”, the last syllable is stressed)