Comments on: How good are you? http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/ language-related musings - one language is never enough / dydy un iaith byth yn ddigon Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:25:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Marty Drury http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-88898 Mon, 12 May 2008 11:25:20 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-88898 Hi. Great blog. Really informative. Thought you might be interested in my blog: www.joinmartin.wordpress.com. I'm a journalist from the UK and I've set myself a challenge: learn as many languages as possible in just one year. Check it out. Thanks and best wishes, Martin. Hi. Great blog. Really informative. Thought you might be interested in my blog: www.joinmartin.wordpress.com. I’m a journalist from the UK and I’ve set myself a challenge: learn as many languages as possible in just one year. Check it out. Thanks and best wishes, Martin.

]]> by: Walter http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-88285 Wed, 07 May 2008 09:17:44 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-88285 Nice post!! I'm just trying <a href="http://www.couponalbum.com/coupons/rosetta-stone.htm" rel="nofollow">Rosetta Stone</a> language learning package... It's working great... Nice post!! I’m just trying Rosetta Stone language learning package… It’s working great…

]]> by: Manny http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-88112 Mon, 05 May 2008 20:50:57 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-88112 Great post, James! I certainly hope that the ability to teach Kantian epistemology in a foreign language never becomes an indicator of skill level! I'd be in trouble in any language. During my time in Spain, I used what is probably the most universally practiced method of self-evaluation when in another culture--the ability to communicate with attractive natives after having a couple of drinks. While some have claimed that imbibing the local sauces tends to make them voluble gabbers in their adopted tongue, my experience tells me that those folks are usually overestimating their abilities. In all seriousness, though, I think everyone cares at least on some level how well they communicate. Whether they've learned a foreign language for professional advancement, or to enjoy traveling to new locations, or even to conduct proper research on their favorite German philosophers, I think they care. As evidence, the company I work with gets many inquiries from corporations, government agencies, and individual language enthusiasts, all who share the desire to assess their language abilities or the abilities of their employees and agents on an objective scale. Great post, James!

I certainly hope that the ability to teach Kantian epistemology in a foreign language never becomes an indicator of skill level! I’d be in trouble in any language.

During my time in Spain, I used what is probably the most universally practiced method of self-evaluation when in another culture–the ability to communicate with attractive natives after having a couple of drinks. While some have claimed that imbibing the local sauces tends to make them voluble gabbers in their adopted tongue, my experience tells me that those folks are usually overestimating their abilities.

In all seriousness, though, I think everyone cares at least on some level how well they communicate. Whether they’ve learned a foreign language for professional advancement, or to enjoy traveling to new locations, or even to conduct proper research on their favorite German philosophers, I think they care. As evidence, the company I work with gets many inquiries from corporations, government agencies, and individual language enthusiasts, all who share the desire to assess their language abilities or the abilities of their employees and agents on an objective scale.

]]> by: Frank http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87805 Sat, 03 May 2008 04:18:25 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87805 I care very much about how good I am... not in terms of levels or official certification or anything like that (mostly since it never occurred to me), but in terms of being able to speak fluidly and with as perfect an accent as I can muster. For me, sounding authentic is very important, I swell with pride when native speakers tell me they thought I was from Argentina, or that I was at the very least second-generation. So important, in fact, that any time I start a new language, I obsess over pronunciation before I even get too far into the grammar. Of course, the pronunciation I learned right away turned out to be about half-right, but I adjusted as I went along and learned to accept, for example, that the letter 'S' is the redheaded stepchild of Spanish phonology. But I digress. Learning a language for me is all about having access to a style of communication you hadn't had access to before, whether it be in conversation, literature, music, whatever. I want to express myself as naturally as possible. So I'm definitely going to care a lot about how good I am. I care very much about how good I am… not in terms of levels or official certification or anything like that (mostly since it never occurred to me), but in terms of being able to speak fluidly and with as perfect an accent as I can muster. For me, sounding authentic is very important, I swell with pride when native speakers tell me they thought I was from Argentina, or that I was at the very least second-generation. So important, in fact, that any time I start a new language, I obsess over pronunciation before I even get too far into the grammar.

Of course, the pronunciation I learned right away turned out to be about half-right, but I adjusted as I went along and learned to accept, for example, that the letter ‘S’ is the redheaded stepchild of Spanish phonology. But I digress.

Learning a language for me is all about having access to a style of communication you hadn’t had access to before, whether it be in conversation, literature, music, whatever. I want to express myself as naturally as possible. So I’m definitely going to care a lot about how good I am.

]]> by: James http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87771 Fri, 02 May 2008 20:24:24 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87771 For the curious the Swiss did this http://www.coe.int/T/DG4/Portfolio/documents/appendix2.pdf It enables you to do a self assesment and then has space for a teacher and for your language learning goals. There is no such thing as a truly objective test... For the curious the Swiss did this

http://www.coe.int/T/DG4/Portfolio/documents/appendix2.pdf

It enables you to do a self assesment and then has space for a teacher and for your language learning goals. There is no such thing as a truly objective test…

]]> by: Jose http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87763 Fri, 02 May 2008 19:05:21 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87763 I had the feeling I was starting to be good in English when I was in England and could: a) answer my host family's phone and pick a message for them. b) go to the pharmacy and explain the shop assistant that I needed a syrup for cough. c) understand most of the questions of a TV quiz show where they were speaking really fast. This might seem ridiculous, but it is the truth. It is these little goals that helped me become more confident with English... I had the feeling I was starting to be good in English when I was in England and could:
a) answer my host family’s phone and pick a message for them.
b) go to the pharmacy and explain the shop assistant that I needed a syrup for cough.
c) understand most of the questions of a TV quiz show where they were speaking really fast.
This might seem ridiculous, but it is the truth. It is these little goals that helped me become more confident with English…

]]> by: JREL http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87721 Fri, 02 May 2008 07:56:18 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87721 This is all very exciting, but I'd rather like to take an exam to test my level instead of trying to match the descriptors in the wikipedia table. At least when I took my CPE I knew I was at something of a C2 for English, but I never tried it for Italian, for example. Does anyone know of online tests which would give me an idea of where I am on the scale? Also, the CEFR is — understandably — very eurocentric in nature. I'd quite like to test my Mandarin formally, but besides the HSK, I'm not sure there's a standardised test out there which takes all aspects of CEFR into consideration... thoughts? This is all very exciting, but I’d rather like to take an exam to test my level instead of trying to match the descriptors in the wikipedia table. At least when I took my CPE I knew I was at something of a C2 for English, but I never tried it for Italian, for example.
Does anyone know of online tests which would give me an idea of where I am on the scale? Also, the CEFR is — understandably — very eurocentric in nature. I’d quite like to test my Mandarin formally, but besides the HSK, I’m not sure there’s a standardised test out there which takes all aspects of CEFR into consideration… thoughts?

]]> by: James http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87678 Thu, 01 May 2008 22:41:06 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87678 to Polly; ha! It´s very much a personal thing, isn´t it? I realised that after seeing the different sorts of spanish that expats speak here. One person I spoke to said that in the nearly 20 years that she´s been here she´s never thought once about her pronunciation. Another person I know hardly ever went near a language classroom or a grammar book, but were generally held to speak "well", meaning that they were able to do everything that they wanted to do and were happy. Chileans accepted their spanish even though the subjunctive was a dark room with no door. I was amused to find out that my German has dropped down to about a a2 (maybe a bit higher on comprehension) from years of neglect and my french is of unknown status as I can´t speak it for more than about 5 seconds before it turns into Spanish. More and more I am seeing that the numbers, while at one level useful to be able to be objective, are really not directly relevant to how at home you feel in the language. to Polly; ha! It´s very much a personal thing, isn´t it? I realised that after seeing the different sorts of spanish that expats speak here. One person I spoke to said that in the nearly 20 years that she´s been here she´s never thought once about her pronunciation. Another person I know hardly ever went near a language classroom or a grammar book, but were generally held to speak “well”, meaning that they were able to do everything that they wanted to do and were happy. Chileans accepted their spanish even though the subjunctive was a dark room with no door.

I was amused to find out that my German has dropped down to about a a2 (maybe a bit higher on comprehension) from years of neglect and my french is of unknown status as I can´t speak it for more than about 5 seconds before it turns into Spanish.

More and more I am seeing that the numbers, while at one level useful to be able to be objective, are really not directly relevant to how at home you feel in the language.

]]> by: Polly http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87674 Thu, 01 May 2008 21:42:56 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87674 I Don't care that much if I don't speak well. My focus is to be able to understand the spoken and written language. If I can make myself understood, that's enough. I accept that I will always have an accent and that I may often say things using directly translated American phraseology. I do hope that my reading and listening reduces my anglicizing foreign languages. I have no idea and no intention of finding out where I rank, officially, in the various languages I've studied. I Don’t care that much if I don’t speak well. My focus is to be able to understand the spoken and written language. If I can make myself understood, that’s enough. I accept that I will always have an accent and that I may often say things using directly translated American phraseology. I do hope that my reading and listening reduces my anglicizing foreign languages.

I have no idea and no intention of finding out where I rank, officially, in the various languages I’ve studied.

]]> by: Ramses http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87668 Thu, 01 May 2008 20:50:13 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/05/01/how-good-are-you/#comment-87668 Last month I went to a language institute in Spain. Afterwards they put me on B2, but I think I'm more of upper-B1. My speaking is pretty good for my level and both reading and listening are well developed I think, but my understanding of grammar just sucks at time. But yes, I do care how good I am. I strive get on a C1 level within the coming 3 - 4 years. Last month I went to a language institute in Spain. Afterwards they put me on B2, but I think I’m more of upper-B1. My speaking is pretty good for my level and both reading and listening are well developed I think, but my understanding of grammar just sucks at time.

But yes, I do care how good I am. I strive get on a C1 level within the coming 3 - 4 years.

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