Comments on: Code switching http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/ language-related musings - one language is never enough / dydy un iaith byth yn ddigon Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:27:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Peter J. Franke http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-88438 Thu, 08 May 2008 19:00:57 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-88438 In the eighyies I worked in two hospitals in Yemen with a number of nationalities. The arab physicians reported in arab and most of them spoke english. The Russians only wrote their diagnosis in their language. But the Chinese nurses and doctors were able to write their reports in english though they did not speak it at all.... In the eighyies I worked in two hospitals in Yemen with a number of nationalities. The arab physicians reported in arab and most of them spoke english. The Russians only wrote their diagnosis in their language. But the Chinese nurses and doctors were able to write their reports in english though they did not speak it at all….

]]> by: Minstrel Ayreon http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-88013 Sun, 04 May 2008 22:51:44 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-88013 I have to admit, I have never liked it when I get the sense that people are using another language in order to talk about somebody in their presence. Another particularly rude thing to do is, if you have more than two parties in a conversation, is to speak in a language you know the third person does not understand rather than opting for whatever the group's common language is. All that accomplishes is (whether you mean to or not) creating the appearance of factions. I have to admit, I have never liked it when I get the sense that people are using another language in order to talk about somebody in their presence. Another particularly rude thing to do is, if you have more than two parties in a conversation, is to speak in a language you know the third person does not understand rather than opting for whatever the group’s common language is. All that accomplishes is (whether you mean to or not) creating the appearance of factions.

]]> by: Junko http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87519 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:19:50 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87519 English is the first language of my family but they speak Japanese too some more than others. So we sometimes speak to each other in Japanese in public if we want to communicate our private thoughts. Also when I want to get away from a sales person on the phone, I used to speak Japanese but lately I try speaking Welsh. But I get nervous and manage to say a word or two. I should try longer sentences. If the person spoke Welsh, I'd get so happy that I might end up buying whatever he/she is selling! English is the first language of my family but they speak Japanese too some more than others. So we sometimes speak to each other in Japanese in public if we want to communicate our private thoughts.

Also when I want to get away from a sales person on the phone, I used to speak Japanese but lately I try speaking Welsh. But I get nervous and manage to say a word or two. I should try longer sentences. If the person spoke Welsh, I’d get so happy that I might end up buying whatever he/she is selling!

]]> by: James http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87309 Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:53:13 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87309 Actually it´s less that four years. Prior to Sept 2004 I couldn´t say anything in Spanish. I got to level B2 in 10 weeks on the back of my french and Latin. Then 6 months of occasional use with my Mexican friend in Florida. No spanish at all from June 2005-Sept 2006. I didn´t listen to the radio or read in it. All my learning has been in spanish speaking countries, I have often gone long periods of time speaking no or almost no English (staff meeting once a week and calls to my Mother are pretty much the most I get), and normally get 6+ hours of input a day, every day (hours of radio, reading novels, and interaction with people at work, friends etc). In Feb I spent 2 weeks in Guatemala without saying a single word in English for 2 weeks, with 8 hours a day of 1-2-1 classes, lving in a Guatemalan family. Same sort of Spanish as my mexican friend. My grandfather didn´t learn any English until he was about 30 (he´s polish and was Polish/German bilingual before that) Actually it´s less that four years. Prior to Sept 2004 I couldn´t say anything in Spanish. I got to level B2 in 10 weeks on the back of my french and Latin. Then 6 months of occasional use with my Mexican friend in Florida. No spanish at all from June 2005-Sept 2006. I didn´t listen to the radio or read in it. All my learning has been in spanish speaking countries, I have often gone long periods of time speaking no or almost no English (staff meeting once a week and calls to my Mother are pretty much the most I get), and normally get 6+ hours of input a day, every day (hours of radio, reading novels, and interaction with people at work, friends etc). In Feb I spent 2 weeks in Guatemala without saying a single word in English for 2 weeks, with 8 hours a day of 1-2-1 classes, lving in a Guatemalan family. Same sort of Spanish as my mexican friend.

My grandfather didn´t learn any English until he was about 30 (he´s polish and was Polish/German bilingual before that)

]]> by: Seumas http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87306 Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:37:46 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87306 We use Gaelic whenever we're out in public as a way of having a private conversation in a public place. It's great in crowded restaurants, cafes etc! We also use Gaelic when we are abroad, for a couple of reasons. First, when we speak English everyone assumes we are English, which we are not. So using Gaelic prevents that. Secondly, Brits tend to have a negative image abroad (loud lager louts, culturally insensitive, monolingual etc), so again, speaking Gaelic (which they never recognise) means they treat you more positively. We've also found Gaelic tremendously useful while travelling in Africa - when you're bartering, or generally trying to suss out a situation, it is so useful to have another language you can switch into when you know nobody else will understand a word. We use Gaelic whenever we’re out in public as a way of having a private conversation in a public place. It’s great in crowded restaurants, cafes etc!

We also use Gaelic when we are abroad, for a couple of reasons. First, when we speak English everyone assumes we are English, which we are not. So using Gaelic prevents that. Secondly, Brits tend to have a negative image abroad (loud lager louts, culturally insensitive, monolingual etc), so again, speaking Gaelic (which they never recognise) means they treat you more positively.

We’ve also found Gaelic tremendously useful while travelling in Africa - when you’re bartering, or generally trying to suss out a situation, it is so useful to have another language you can switch into when you know nobody else will understand a word.

]]> by: Joe DeRose http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87241 Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:45:52 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87241 Fascinating post and comments. Thanks, all. My only answer regarding "political" use of language is that I try to speak Spanish as much as possible in the U.S. to send a signal of inclusion. When I travel, I try very hard to speak the local language as much as I can to counter the impression of Americans as persons who expect others always to accommodate us in English. More interesting than my experiences, though, are those of a former boss: Prior to his work in my office, he worked in the YMCA in Jerusalem. According to him various staff members spoke as their native languages Hebrew, Arabic, English, and German, and most spoke all of these languages. So every staff meeting would begin with a discussion (in many languages) as to which language would be used for the business part of the meeting, with consideration of factors such as (1) who was present, but didn't know one of the languages, (2) who needed to make a presentation (which would be best in her/his native language), (3) which languages had gotten short shrift lately, etc. An even more interesting aside that he shared about these years of service is that the doorkeeper in their building had a cognition disorder which caused him to shift languages mid-sentence as he spoke. (Apparently this individual had been quite a polyglot prior to the development of the problem.) In most places the impediment would have made work nearly impossible, but he did fairly well in this particular multi-lingual environment. -- Joe / Atlanta / USA Fascinating post and comments. Thanks, all.

My only answer regarding “political” use of language is that I try to speak Spanish as much as possible in the U.S. to send a signal of inclusion. When I travel, I try very hard to speak the local language as much as I can to counter the impression of Americans as persons who expect others always to accommodate us in English.

More interesting than my experiences, though, are those of a former boss: Prior to his work in my office, he worked in the YMCA in Jerusalem. According to him various staff members spoke as their native languages Hebrew, Arabic, English, and German, and most spoke all of these languages. So every staff meeting would begin with a discussion (in many languages) as to which language would be used for the business part of the meeting, with consideration of factors such as (1) who was present, but didn’t know one of the languages, (2) who needed to make a presentation (which would be best in her/his native language), (3) which languages had gotten short shrift lately, etc.

An even more interesting aside that he shared about these years of service is that the doorkeeper in their building had a cognition disorder which caused him to shift languages mid-sentence as he spoke. (Apparently this individual had been quite a polyglot prior to the development of the problem.) In most places the impediment would have made work nearly impossible, but he did fairly well in this particular multi-lingual environment.

– Joe / Atlanta / USA

]]> by: Ramses http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87227 Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:35:43 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87227 Well [James, hehe], the fact that you reached more or less a C2 level in 4 years is a gigantic motivation boost for a lot of Spanish learners I think. So thank you! It's weird that even in my college classes people tend to say it's impossible to be perfect in a language other than your native tongue. I believe it's possible, as long as you dovote enough time and love to studying and practicing it. Well [James, hehe], the fact that you reached more or less a C2 level in 4 years is a gigantic motivation boost for a lot of Spanish learners I think. So thank you!

It’s weird that even in my college classes people tend to say it’s impossible to be perfect in a language other than your native tongue. I believe it’s possible, as long as you dovote enough time and love to studying and practicing it.

]]> by: James http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87213 Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:13:01 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87213 James... not Dr Palmer... I started when I was 28 with 10 weeks immersion in Spain in 2004. Not much after that for nearly 2 years (I lived in Florida and listened to the radio and had a Mexican friend who left after 6 months. I got very used to Mexican spanish). I have been living in Chile for nearly 20 months (arrived Sept 2006), so that´s less that 2 years. And yes, I learnt fast and studied a lot. I´m not a bilingual in the technical sense, but my teacher in Guatemala this year (Feb 2008) said that I often think more like a native speaker (I don´t agree with him.. maybe more of that in another post if Simon will put it up!) James… not Dr Palmer… I started when I was 28 with 10 weeks immersion in Spain in 2004. Not much after that for nearly 2 years (I lived in Florida and listened to the radio and had a Mexican friend who left after 6 months. I got very used to Mexican spanish). I have been living in Chile for nearly 20 months (arrived Sept 2006), so that´s less that 2 years. And yes, I learnt fast and studied a lot. I´m not a bilingual in the technical sense, but my teacher in Guatemala this year (Feb 2008) said that I often think more like a native speaker (I don´t agree with him.. maybe more of that in another post if Simon will put it up!)

]]> by: James http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87211 Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:06:49 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87211 The point about making sure your listener understands English well enough to pick up the finer points you´re making is a good one. I sometimes wonder with one of the friends if it´s the best policy.. his passive English is very good, but he only lived in an English speaking country for 3 months, and that´s not really enough. However, it does have the advantage of reminding them that you are not part of their culture and that they need to take that into account. They both know that when I speak English they have to be nice as it means I´m about to explode. On the "aggressive" use of an unknown language (!) it´s hard to change gear once you´ve started in the language they know. What you can do is let your accent get stronger and stronger and then claim not to understand what they are saying (which in Chile, to be honest, you probably don´t: much of understanding here is guessing what the other person might be saying and involves a lot of good will on the part of the non Chilean listener. I was talking with a Bolivian student about this and he has as much trouble as I do and we also speak the same dialect of Spanish: Latin American highland spanish). The point about making sure your listener understands English well enough to pick up the finer points you´re making is a good one. I sometimes wonder with one of the friends if it´s the best policy.. his passive English is very good, but he only lived in an English speaking country for 3 months, and that´s not really enough. However, it does have the advantage of reminding them that you are not part of their culture and that they need to take that into account. They both know that when I speak English they have to be nice as it means I´m about to explode.

On the “aggressive” use of an unknown language (!) it´s hard to change gear once you´ve started in the language they know. What you can do is let your accent get stronger and stronger and then claim not to understand what they are saying (which in Chile, to be honest, you probably don´t: much of understanding here is guessing what the other person might be saying and involves a lot of good will on the part of the non Chilean listener. I was talking with a Bolivian student about this and he has as much trouble as I do and we also speak the same dialect of Spanish: Latin American highland spanish).

]]> by: Ramse http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87207 Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:35:25 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2008/04/28/code-switching-2/#comment-87207 A short question for Dr. Palmer: At what age did you start studying Spanish? A short question for Dr. Palmer:
At what age did you start studying Spanish?

]]>