Comments on: Word of the day - zmrzlina http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/ language-related musings - one language is never enough / ét sprog er aldrig nok Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:19:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Petusek http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-58257 Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:48:17 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-58257 Pronunciational remarks: 1. /ř/ is not a combination of [r] and [ʒ], but rather a raised [r] (the stricture between the tip of the tongue and the alveolar ridge is narrowed), and has two allophones - voiceless and voiced. The voiced variant occurs after voiced consonants, the voiceless one elsewhere. Examples /břídil/ vs. /přítel/ The /ř/ in /bří/ is voiced, similar to /ž/, but the /ř/ in /pří/ is voiceless, similar to /š/, or rather to Polish /ś/. 2. Czech /r/ is somewhere between Spanish /r/ and Spanish /rr/. In general, we can say the more vibrations, the more expressivity. 3. Yes, Czech /l/ and /r/ (and even the nasals /m/ and /n/) can by syllabic, i.e. they can act as vowels to form syllables. That also occurs in English. Consider words like /maple/, /bottle/, which is often (wrongly!) transcribed with a schwa at the end. Czech /r/ can do the same, and so can the two nasals. Best, P. Pronunciational remarks:

1. /ř/ is not a combination of [r] and [ʒ], but rather a raised [r] (the stricture between the tip of the tongue and the alveolar ridge is narrowed), and has two allophones - voiceless and voiced. The voiced variant occurs after voiced consonants, the voiceless one elsewhere.

Examples /břídil/ vs. /přítel/

The /ř/ in /bří/ is voiced, similar to /ž/, but the /ř/ in /pří/ is voiceless, similar to /š/, or rather to Polish /ś/.

2. Czech /r/ is somewhere between Spanish /r/ and Spanish /rr/. In general, we can say the more vibrations, the more expressivity.

3. Yes, Czech /l/ and /r/ (and even the nasals /m/ and /n/) can by syllabic, i.e. they can act as vowels to form syllables. That also occurs in English. Consider words like /maple/, /bottle/, which is often (wrongly!) transcribed with a schwa at the end. Czech /r/ can do the same, and so can the two nasals.

Best,

P.

]]> by: Tuthmose http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-28030 Sun, 04 Feb 2007 17:21:25 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-28030 Do you know the Czech word "čtvrthrst"? I think it's very difficult to pronounce for English speaking people and foreigners in general... Do you know the Czech word “čtvrthrst”? I think it’s very difficult to pronounce for English speaking people and foreigners in general…

]]> by: Polly http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9765 Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:52:26 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9765 I've read countless explanations of Russian soft consonants but I still don't get it! I can't hear the difference, and I still don't know how to make the sounds correctly. The letter "ы" also escapes me. I just pronounce it like "i" in "hit" but I know that's wrong. I’ve read countless explanations of Russian soft consonants but I still don’t get it! I can’t hear the difference, and I still don’t know how to make the sounds correctly. The letter “ы” also escapes me. I just pronounce it like “i” in “hit” but I know that’s wrong.

]]> by: Simon http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9679 Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:48:26 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9679 Benjamin - my impression is that Czech "r"s are more tapped than rolled, but I could be wrong as I'm not yet familiar with all the subtleties of Czech pronunciation. Benjamin - my impression is that Czech “r”s are more tapped than rolled, but I could be wrong as I’m not yet familiar with all the subtleties of Czech pronunciation.

]]> by: Simon http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9612 Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:36:50 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9612 BG - with great difficulty! In Czech, r and l act as sort of semi-vowels. I've added a link to a recording of me attempting to say zmrzlina to the post. BG - with great difficulty! In Czech, r and l act as sort of semi-vowels. I’ve added a link to a recording of me attempting to say zmrzlina to the post.

]]> by: BG http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9601 Tue, 26 Sep 2006 04:05:37 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9601 So how are you supposed to pronounce so many consonants without any vowels? So how are you supposed to pronounce so many consonants without any vowels?

]]> by: Benjamin http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9599 Tue, 26 Sep 2006 02:05:12 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9599 And suddenly "rztpr" as in German "Arztpraxis" (a doctor's practise) looks so easy... ;-) How do Czechs pronounce "r"? Is it rolled like in Spanish and most other languages? @Rita I'm really envious of Finnish spelling, although German spelling isn't that bad actually. But yet Finnish is just the most logical spelling I've ever seen... By the way: Minä/Mina olen Benjamin. And suddenly “rztpr” as in German “Arztpraxis” (a doctor’s practise) looks so easy… ;-)

How do Czechs pronounce “r”? Is it rolled like in Spanish and most other languages?

@Rita
I’m really envious of Finnish spelling, although German spelling isn’t that bad actually. But yet Finnish is just the most logical spelling I’ve ever seen…
By the way: Minä/Mina olen Benjamin.

]]> by: Simon http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9563 Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:13:05 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9563 Paul - I've added IPA transcriptions to the post. Paul - I’ve added IPA transcriptions to the post.

]]> by: Paul http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9538 Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:21:41 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9538 Could someone post the IPA for some of these CCCs* please? Especially 'zmrzlina'; I wouldn't know where to start. *Czech Consonant Clusters Could someone post the IPA for some of these CCCs* please? Especially ‘zmrzlina’; I wouldn’t know where to start.
*Czech Consonant Clusters

]]> by: Simon http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9429 Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:49:31 +0000 http://www.omniglot.com/blog/2006/09/23/zmrzlina/#comment-9429 Podolsky - I like the consonant clusters, some of them quite tricky to pronounce though. Podolsky - I like the consonant clusters, some of them quite tricky to pronounce though.

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